Conan 4e

Saxon

Mongoose
I was like you...seeing 4e as a table top version of WoW...after a year of playing the new mechanics...they slipped into the background...and the true role-play came back to the fore-ground.

Is there an open gaming license for 4e?

The bottomline is a group of old-school 30s-40s year old gamers fought through the 4e learning curve and discovered any set of rules, "is what it is." Just like when we all converted from 2nd to 3.0.

After we all got a good grip on the 4e rules...our group has just as many character journals as every...just as much passion for characters and storyline...just as much everything...cuz its about the players not the rules.

The Conan RPG Combat Manuveurs ARE basically 4e encounter powers! The creators of Conan RPG were ahead of the curve when they came up with CM.

While I do appreciate all the extra rules factored in to bring realism to the Conan gaming experience, at a certain point you have to ask yourself when it overbears the flow of the game.

4e definately fails to pick up on every extra detail, but it captures the spirit of the experience we are all yearning for when we sit around the table.

When will we see Conan RPG 4e?
 
Matt has stated that it wont happen until after he dies. So dont wait for it. There will probably be 8.0 before Conan changes form some form of 3.0
 
Saxon said:
The Conan RPG Combat Manuveurs ARE basically 4e encounter powers! The creators of Conan RPG were ahead of the curve when they came up with CM.

I think they are enough thread on 4th that there is no need to start a new debate. But your above satement is false.

Manoeuver are special attack you can do in specific situation. Most of them either don't work all the time, or are just weaker attack. They are design to add favlour to an encounter, or cool situation you'll remember. You won't see a sucessful Decapitating slash or Desesparate stab every encounter. If you're lucky, maybe you'll see once during a campain, in wich case you'll sureley rembember it as an highly.

Encounter power are just attack. They are just tactical attack you need to use at the right moment. You don't need a special situation to use them, you use them when you want.
 
AGNKim said:
Saxon said:
Just like when we all converted from 2nd to 3.0.

Not all of us. Hell, not all of us converted from 1stEd to 2nd. :)

Well I'm 36 yrs old.
I started with 1st Ed. I kinda skipped RPGs in the 90s altogether and came to Conan using the 3.5 system (I never really knew about the3.0, but for the virtue of buying SLAINE in 2008).

I have reverted to a variant of Castles and Crusaders whisch is ESSENTIALLY 1st Edition ADnD with the fast paced ability tests as opposed to Skill building and calculating.
I have to say the last 8 months of CnC has been great it has brought the fast paced adventures and campaigns back to life.
I love it
 
I never made the conversion from 1st ed to 2nd. Skipped 3.0 as well. Came in to 3.5, and liked it. Then when they brought out 4E, which I shall never play. Then I noticed Conan looked good, made the switch and have been happy for it.

If Conan goes 4E, I and many other here are out of the line. Most likely includeing the head Mongoose.
 
Saxon said:
The Conan RPG Combat Manuveurs ARE basically 4e encounter powers! The creators of Conan RPG were ahead of the curve when they came up with CM.

Sounds more like Pathfinder RPG than 4E D&D . . .
 
There certainly appears to be a lot of anti-4E sentiment around here, which I can't quite understand. While I agree that the tone of 4E can seem, taken to the extreme, antithetical to Hyborian Age gaming, some of the 4E game mechanics are eminently suitable for a Conan RPG, specifically the concept (if not the execution) of Healing Surges, minions, skill challenges, skill progression, encounter construction, and so on. I've taken on some of these elements for my upcoming Shem game I present them here for those who are interested:

To reflect the heroic stature of PCs in the world of Conan, while at the same time reducing the huge disparity between high and low-level characters, the following rules are offered:

Abler Heroes
PC heroes use the Heroic Generation method, CONAN: the Roleplaying Game, p.9. (8 +1d10 for each ability, or, for the sake of convenience, the following array: 17, 16, 15, 12, 11, 10)
More Feats: Gain feats at 1st level, 3rd level, and every two levels thereafter (5th, 7th, etc). Bonus feats for Favoured Class are gained at levels 1, 5, and 10.
Heroes gain one additional language (dialect, DM has the final say as to appropriate/related dialects) every even level. These are in addition to native language and bonus languages by race.

Skilled Heroes
More Skills:
 You have a skill score equal to ½ level (round down) + attribute modifier + 5 (if “trained”) + 3 (if skill focus) for all skills, except those in which you have no proficiency (see below).
 You are considered trained in a number of skills equal to your “Skill Points at Each Additional Level”. These must be chosen from your list of class skills, however skills gained from your Intelligence bonus need not be on your list of class skills.
 If you multiclass, you may take the higher number of skill points from your classes, and may choose freely from between the two (or more) classes’ class skills list. If a skill is common to both class skills lists, then you use ½ character level, otherwise use ½ class level.
 All other skills are “untrained,” except those denoted cross-class (“cc”) in CONAN: The Compendium, Solo and Duo Play; you have no proficiency at all with these skills.

For Example 1: a Barbarian 8 with Intelligence 13 (+1) is trained in 5 skills (4 + INT bonus). He selects Climb, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, and Move Silently as his trained skills, each with 4 + 5 (= 9) ranks. All other skills (except those marked ‘cc’, see below) are untrained, with 4 ranks each.

Soldier 2/Thief 6 with Intelligence 15 (+2), is trained in 10 skills (8 + INT bonus, as a Thief), which may be chosen from either the soldier or thief skill lists. If he takes training in Bluff (a class skill for Thief, but not available to Soldier class), he has 3 + 5 (= +8) ranks. If he is trained in Climb (a skill common to both classes), he has 4 + 5 (= 9) ranks. All untrained skills common to both classes are at 4 ranks, those skills on the Soldier list only are at 1 rank each, and those only on the Thief list are at 3 ranks each.


 The Skill Training feat allows you to turn an untrained skill into a trained skill.
 You may re-roll any skill checks for Background Skills, whether trained or not, taking the second result, whether it is better or not. The option to re-roll must be exercised before the results of the failed roll are revealed.

Remember, however, that you “may never achieve more than the most basic success with an untrained skill, however naturally able (you) might be… any result of 10 or above is treated as a result of 10.” (CONAN: the Roleplaying Game, p.83).

Replace minimum skill pre-requisites with “must be trained in (skill name).” Your effective skill ranks for the purposes of meeting skill prerequisites, is equal to one-half your class level +5 (since you are trained) +3 (if you also have skill focus with the skill in question).

For Example: As written, the spell Sorcerous Garden requires 10 ranks Knowledge (nature), 12 ranks Craft (herbalism), Summon Beast. Under this skill system, a Scholar trained in Knowledge and Craft skills automatically meets the skill prerequisites at 14th level. However, an eighth level scholar would qualify if he took Skill Focus: Craft (herbalism) and Skill Focus: Knowledge (nature) as well.

Fate of Heroes
All player characters and important NPCs get three Conviction points per session. These operate as follows:
 Re-roll (take the better result; declared before the effects of the failed roll are revealed)
 Recover (move one step up the condition track)
 Second Wind (only once per encounter)

Any unspent Conviction is lost between sessions.

Fate points operate as detailed in CONAN: the Roleplaying Game 2E, pp.75-6: Left for Dead, Mighty Blow, Parry or Dodge, Resist Terror, Repentance, Destiny. These are in addition to Conviction, above.

Sinews, not Suits
The Maximum DEX bonus from armour on Table 6-4: Armour Table, p. 144, should read “Maximum DEX bonus, Base Dodge defence Bonus, and Reflex defence bonus.” (This is exclusive of other dodge or reflex bonuses, such as from Fighting Defensively, Lightning Reflexes, etc.) This will make armour an attractive proposition for you at low-level, but at higher levels, you must make a difficult choice whether or not to sacrifice mobility for protection.

(NB: a character is flat-footed at the start of combat, and does not gain the benefit of parry or dodge defence until his first action (p. 160), but he may thereafter change freely between them, provided this is done before his opponent’s attack roll.)

Not all of the listed armour types fit with this GM’s vision of the Hyborian Age: Heavy Armour is unavailable, as are Visored Helms.

Damage Reduction from armour is only considered once you are bloodied (one-half your maximum hit points or less), as befits the abstract nature of hit points.

The rules for carrying capacity, loads and movement (pp. 11-14) discourage the accumulation of equipment.

The High Living rule (p.130) is used. See also Commencing an Adventure (“As Games Master you are always at liberty to remove from (or add to) the characters’ equipment lists between adventures”) in the Campaigns chapter (p.332+).

More Mooks
PCs should be tougher than most human opponents. This is reflected by use of the 4E D&D Minions mechanic. Furthermore, an opponent who is bloodied (one-half maximum hit points or less) who is again hit is, usually, rendered incapable of further part in a battle, and is considered unconscious, or demoralised, and will take flight or surrender, as determined by the GM.

Note the Multiple Opponents rule, p.187, and the Aid Another rule, p.178, however.

Second Wind and Extended Rests
If you are reduced to one-half your maximum hit points or less, you can spend a Conviction point as a standard action to catch a “second wind” once per encounter. This action restores a number of hit points equal to your Healing Surge value (one-quarter of your full hit point total, round down, as described in 4E D&D).

Only heroic characters and important NPCs can catch a second wind.

After you rest for ten minutes while you are bloodied, you regain a number of hit points equal to your Healing Surge value. After an Extended Rest (as defined in 4E D&D) you recover all lost hit points, but not persistent conditions (see below) or ability score damage; these are restored between adventures, or as decided by the GM.


Damage Threshold Rules
To reflect a more gritty, yet cinematic feel to combat, the following is suggested:
 Damage Threshold is equal to your Fortitude Score (10 plus Fortitude save bonus + Constitution bonus + Size modifier [+/- 5, 10, 20, 50] + Toughness feat bonus)
 If you are hit for greater than or equal to your Fortitude score (after armour penetration and damage reduction is taken into account), you move down the Condition Track, as described in Star Wars Saga Edition rules, p.149
 Whenever you move down the Condition Track, make a Constitution check, DC 10 + 2 per step down the Condition Track. If you fail, the condition is persistent. If you roll a ‘natural 1’, you fall unconscious and the condition is persistent. If you roll a ‘natural 20’ you ignore the condition entirely
 At low levels, hit points and Damage Threshold are reversed: Damage Threshold is the lower figure, while your hit point total equals the higher figure
 You may spend a point of Conviction to move one step up the condition track (unless the condition is persistent)
 Persistent Conditions are removed between adventures. They prevent the use of Healing Surges after short and extended rests, but Second Wind may still be employed
 The Massive Damage rule still applies, and is used in addition to the damage threshold rules, above. Massive damage threshold scales by size, as above. On a failed Fortitude save, the character is reduced to -1 to -10 hit points (random roll)

Most unimportant NPCs are treated as Non-heroic characters: they are automatically reduced to unconscious or dead if their Damage Threshold is equalled or exceeded, or if they are hit while bloodied (see above).

Against inanimate objects, constructs, undead, and the like, Damage Threshold does not apply, but Massive Damage does.

Any comments or suggestions are most welcome.

N
 
I worked on this "conversion" of the Age of Conan computer game for use with 4e:


http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35959&highlight=

For some ideas to use 4e in Sword & Sorcery milieu, this might be useful:

http://www.pelgranepress.com/SeePageXX/February2009-swordandsorcery.html

Finally, Goodman Games is working on a S&S adventure/setting, Death Dealer, which might be a useful template for S&S games:

http://www.goodman-games.com/5371preview.html

So, overall, it seems there is some space for a S&S 4e game.
 
Spectator said:
I have reverted to a variant of Castles and Crusaders whisch is ESSENTIALLY 1st Edition ADnD with the fast paced ability tests as opposed to Skill building and calculating.
I have to say the last 8 months of CnC has been great it has brought the fast paced adventures and campaigns back to life.
I love it

Yay! Another C&C player! That game is awesome! Do you post over at their board?
 
I suspect that if most here wanted to play 4E, they would be on a 4E board. We are not. Should tell you something.

I dont care how much somebody likes something, if it is not for me, thats it.After all some like gerbils, something I shall never understand and have no desire to.
 
zozotroll said:
I dont care how much somebody likes something, if it is not for me, thats it.After all some like gerbils, something I shall never understand and have no desire to.

Yeah, screw those long-tailed rodents! Hamsters are where it's at! :p
 
As someone who stopped playing D&D in the eighties and discovered the Conan RPG while running a GURPS Conan campaign with the same group for years, I know that Conan "isn't the same as D&D 3.0".
Every once in awhile one of the younger (30+) players want's to run a game. EPIC scale, Pathfinder/D&D Hybrids (pick the one you want), pages of spells,abilities and such.
I'm not saying I couldn't come up with a Barbarian or any other Hyborian Age character concept. I am saying it would in no way be a Hyborian Age game.
I'm also not stating D20 is the only way to play Conan, as I'm ignorant of many game systems mentioned here.
I am also going on record as saying by the time you changed D&D (any edition) enough to portray the Sword and Sorcery genre you would't be playing D&D. Try not handing out pages (sentences,paragraphs) of loot and magic, automatic healing, feat replacing spells and magic shops in every hamlet. This is the essence of that system.
 
If 4e floats your boat, have at it.

Why one would need to inflict it upon Conan, I have no idea.

While I've seen arguments that the Heroic Tier can emulate swords-n-sorcery well, the arguments seem strained to make the case.

At-wills/dailies, etc. = Combat Maneuvers. Ok, you could argue it that way but why adopt the 4e restrictions on how often you can do them?

Free-form multiclassing ala OGL vs 4e multiclassing? I'll take OGL.

I exceed the Heroic tier... Does Conan now go into planes-jumping adventures beyond Hyboria?

Arguably, a Conan game could be run with any of the following: AD&D 1e, 2e, GURPS, Alternity, WHFRP, D&D 3.x, 4e, Rolemaster, & RQ.

I'll still perfer Conan OGL over those.

I could also argue that the above list of RPGs could be hammered, house-ruled, and tweaked to run a Star Wars game as well. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Let the 4e fans play 4e. Let the Conan fans play Conan.

People have been arguing d20/OGL's ability to emulate different genres pretty much since their inception. 4e was not built with an implied setting & playstyle - much moreso than prior editions.
 
AGNKim said:
Spectator said:
I have reverted to a variant of Castles and Crusaders whisch is ESSENTIALLY 1st Edition ADnD with the fast paced ability tests as opposed to Skill building and calculating.
I have to say the last 8 months of CnC has been great it has brought the fast paced adventures and campaigns back to life.
I love it

Yay! Another C&C player! That game is awesome! Do you post over at their board?

Actually
I never even looked at their board. I really like the Hyborian Age so this is the only forum I read, I'll check it out though.
 
I am 46 yrs old, and played AD&D, D&D v2.5, and D&D v3.5. I have had enough of D&D and refuse to ever rebuy all that stuff again for D&Dv4.0 I would rather give the money away, then rebuy all that stuff again. Now I collected all of Conan v1 and v2 and like the d20 system just fine. I will even buy the Pathfinder stuff which is a modified v3.5, but never again will I purchase or play D&D v4.0 If Conan goes to that crappy style I will drop it as well too.

Penn
 
Saxon, it sounds like you have a good group on your hands. I was leary of 4E when it came out, but after running through a few adventures (NOT wizards adventures) I can honestly say it is a really fun game.

It does have a more "gamey" feel than most other RPG's out there, and is not nearly as lethal as Conan or Savage Worlds, but I could see it work in the Conan setting if that is what your group enjoys. So good luck on your campaign, and don't let the 4E haters get to you :)
 
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