Communications and Flight Plans

[phavoc]

With the massive amounts of data storage available to most ships, I'm wondering if most systems will put that to good use by having outbound ships who will typically declare their destination, especially merchants. So as an outbound ship gets ready to jump, the in-system flight control transmits the latest log to them for all ships that have filed flight plans towards their destination.

Upon arrival in a new system, the ships then xmit the data to traffic control, who then can watch for new arrivals as well as update the local shipping boards for potential new ships and berths that will be opening up soon.

Systems that are very busy would benefit from this, but really the planets that are off the more travelled routes would benefit the most.

There are probably other bits of data, like closing stock market info, and other relevant news and government updates that every merchant ship could easily carry (what's a few terrabytes in the 25th century?) and dump into the local planetary network upon arrival in a system.

Information could be encrypted before loading, which would make it harder to tamper with, but really nothing would be sent (most likely) that was super-secret.

 

[far-trader]

Not in my TU. No evidence for such exists in the OTU, that I can recall off-hand at least. It would go contrary to the contracted Mail for subsidized ships, the X-Boat service, and Scout/Courier missions. Not to mention what might be in the regular (miscellaneous) freight or private messages a trusted trader Captain is asked to carry confidentially.

All ships being required to file a destination and submit recent logs makes sense imo (where a starport exists to keep it), and of course the ship keeps a complete log. But there is no real need or requirement to impose record keeping and updating on (essentially) private ships as I see it. It also probably wouldn't be that useful. The important systems will have the info, and the rest there won't be much point in informing

 

[GamerDude]

Actually, a majority of this is handled in the OTU via the X-Boat system, purposely set up for that. But it also doesn't go to every world, so I could see something set up to help move data... kind of like the early long-distance mail being contract carried by private aircraft.

If you want to do it in your setting, sure why not. Pony Express, Stage Coach, Steamer Ship, Private airplane... it all works.

 

[rust]

A trader who knows his market well enough to understand what people
on a frontier world want to know about events offworld, whether is is the
current price for Groatle meat on planet Hungry, the results of the latest
sector league gravball games or the newest free computer software, and
who cares to deliver those informations can easily make friends among
the locals. It could be just a friendly gesture as part of his customer rela-
tions efforts, or it could be a part of a minor deal ("You keep us informed,
we give you free unrefined fuel from the local lake.").

Official and commercial informations will be handled differently, by the
courier service or as mail, but there is also all that "human level" stuff
that provides depth and colour to a setting as well as hooks for adven-
tures, although it is too small to be a part of an abstract trade system.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I agree with Rust. I would think that there is some amount of Free Information that is automatically carried by private ships and freely shared at every port.

Personal messages, corporate information and military info would still fall under the "mail contract" though.

The X-Boat system is how the government gets the info distributed in a timely manner and then it filters down through the merchant network from there.

 

[DFW]

Hmm.... I'm jumping for planet X and, I know that 4 Spec Traders are going to be leaving for same planet ~2-3 days after I.

How could I profit from this private data? I bet someone who trades could leverage this. Knowing that buyers are heading that way and having a couple days to set things up. :twisted:

 

[phavoc]

None of the data carried would be anything but basic data. Mail would still be carried in the official mail databases (or physically). And it's not to say that they would not encrypt the data prior to sending to the merchant ship so they aren't tempted to alter or take a "peek" at it. Though they would be able to get much the same info anyway simply by getting a download of the planetary data net for ships in port, available cargos, destinations, etc.

As far the X-boat network, if you look at the maps, it's actually pretty limited for what the X-boats delivery too. Planets off the network have to depend upon mail and the odd cargo ship that might be heading their way. The X-boats don't carry flight plans and such. That wouldn't make much sense.

But in the less-travelled zones, it would be helpful for the starports to know when roughly to expect a ship, to report it missing or overdue, etc. And for most ships I think they'd want to let someone know where they were going, so if they broke down somewhere at least people would have a general idea where to start looking, not to mention when.

The intent is that there are vastly more merchant ships travelling around than X-boats, subsidized mail ships, even scout ships. Merchants and liners are constantly moving back and forth (some carrying mail too), but the sheer number of them makes it very advantageous for each ship to spread a little bit of info on their trips.

Think of it like the Hivers and their embassy ships that travel around, just looking for another Hiver to "shake" hands with...

 

[DFW]

As far the X-boat network, if you look at the maps, it's actually pretty limited for what the X-boats delivery too. Planets off the network have to depend upon mail and the odd cargo ship that might be heading their way. The X-boats don't carry flight plans and such. That wouldn't make much sense.

Actually, the Scout/Courier Type S' take it from the X-Boat lines to the other worlds not directly on the X-Boat routes. That is actually their (Type S) largest function.

 

[GamerDude]

Ok, with some posters I can never tell if they are talking "Traveller Rule Books/OTU" or their own TU, or some novel they read (at least not until they start pounding on the keyboard).

Sticking with the mechanics in the MGT books (toss in the 3I if you want), any information on pricing, demand, etc for another star system is going to be at least a week old. Basic trends, cultural interests/tastes etc. of course are available (farther away they are the more out of date they will tend to be) but good enough.

As for getting a schedule of who is lifting off when, carrying what, that's a bit trickier. I mean how much information does the local gov't allow out? Law Levels and oppressiveness of the gov't can mean the info isn't just unavailable but trying to get it could be a crime.

"Divine Intervention" - Ships from the imperium come and go at the local imperial starport, but how much of that scheduling information is made readily available considering how oppressive the planetary gov't is? Probably not much, at least not where locals can see it.

 

[BP]

An interstellar government in a 'jump time' delayed transportation network requiring ships to allocate dataspace for official functions (like traffic monitoring) seems 'reasonable'.

It would also seem reasonable that such data would be encrypted (for 'government' use only)

['Course, when I say government - I also include special interests that can buy/coerce their way into that data stream - ala nobles, banks, megacorps and competing merchant lines...

Naturally, this also implies hacking attempts...]

 

[Captain Jonah]

While the Mail and all official data goes via the X-Boats, the jump 6 network that carries the secret goverment mail and the scout couriers there is still going to be a vast market for unofficial stuff.

In the back of beyond how do they get the latest Tri-Ds and e-magazines, even simple news reports a week out of date keep you in touch with the rest if the 3rdI.

As a trader (evil broker/money grubbing profit making goods dealer) having contacts with the local and sub sector traders would be important. Yes the news would be a week or more out of date but spending a full score credits to get all the news reports they can bring you from selected worlds can pay off. Even if you treat the ship crew to a slap up meal each time they jump in you get access to a wealth of information.

Knowing what the weather has been like and was like a week ago on a nearby world may not seem important till you add a history of crop yields based on weather patterns for the last 100 years. Last week was the third week of the drought at the critical growth phase of the Java pod growth. Every time this has happened over the last hundred years the harvest has been cut to a quarter. All except the farmers in the highlands who have lower crop yields but local weather is wetter so they will be producing a full crop.
Time to send someone over to strike a few deals for exclusive rights to the highland crop.
Being a broker is all about knowing the market and when you are dealing with several worlds and systems you need to keep on top of the data. Waiting for the x-boats may be too slow as the boats don't arrive several times a day with the news, market information and the weather.

With the scale of the 3rdI and how slow things move every merchant worth his title would add data to the list of things he could buy and sell. It doesn't have to be doing secure mail runs.

A distribution license with a small tri-D producer to sell their latest productions, music from half a sector away. Even delivering (for free) a whole load of personal messages from the families and friends back on the worlds of the main improves your reception with the folks off the main.

Happy customers spend credits and if a few gigabytes of data help make them happy, well, what is a few gigabytes to a starship computer

 

[zero]

^ Fair point. This is how I justify the mail cargo tins that my freight runners deliver along with whatever minor freight theyre charged with.

 

[GJD]

I wouldn't think that this information would be carried by normal civilian ships. I'd certainly see it carried as a dispatch by any ship with a mail contract, and certainly by regularly scheduled X-boats.

I would imagine that there is a regular weekly circulation of such information between starports via the Xpoat transmissions, probbaly automated as part of the transfer process itself. The same information is also forwarded on to the sector capital to go into a big file in the starport authority traffic analysis computer so they can plan the next hyperspace bypass or somesuch, or for the information drones in the Imperial Records bureau.

Then there is probably an ad-hoc update carried as a backup by any passing mail ships, to add in redundancy. As and when a ship is going in the right direction a pacetised summary is created and transmitted, or uploaded or whatever, and the pointer reset for the next ship. If this happens before the regular Xboat upload, then the same data is also sent in the regular weekly run too.

Just my thoughts....

G.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Hmm.... I'm jumping for planet X and, I know that 4 Spec Traders are going to be leaving for same planet ~2-3 days after I.

How could I profit from this private data? I bet someone who trades could leverage this. Knowing that buyers are heading that way and having a couple days to set things up. :twisted:

You could do that without any kind of public datanet agreement.

Just look at the departure board before you leave along with a simple analysis (or bribe) of what has been sold to whom headed the same way and you have something of value at the other end.

You could do this just about any time you wanted to...

 

[Captain Jonah]

Knowledge = Power

Power = Wealth

Wealth = Happy Merchant

 

[kafka]

Flight plans do exist IMTU as traffic control device and a way of tracking ships. Failure to file a flight plan is tantamount to smuggling. So, yes, players get in trouble most of the time... but they pay the fine and move on. One loophole around it is jump in the shadow and then quickly file the flight plan in advance of mail packet from the last Starport. But, rarely are players jumping from an inhabited system to another inhabited system instantly. Thereby, giving players enough time to file the proper procedure.

In terms of how this mechanic is transported from world to world...it is just part of the transponder communications and that is then relied to all departing ships. If there are no departing ships then it is acceptable for the players ship to carry the information but their flight path must be in a less desirable precipitation point. Thereby, lessening the burden on traffic control.

 

[phavoc]

Hrm, I guess I should clarify this some more.

The kind of information carried in this scenario is not anything that would not be publicly available prior to transit. It's meant to assist traffic control in knowing when starships are due in, to provide headline news to be dumped into planetary datanets (or first sifted through by local governments before release), and to let spaceports and their ancillary businesses when they can expect prospective customers.

Information such as inbound cargos and other information specific to a merchant's cargo might or might not be included. I would suspect some ships might not want to let on what they are carrying. Then again, some might, for by passing that information to a market prior to arrival, they may be able to sell their cargo faster because people know it's coming.

But the idea wasn't meant to replace mail deliveries, nor does it have anything to do with the X-boat network. Because of the sheer number and frequency of merchant and passenger liner departures, basic ship traffic and new information can be disseminated much faster.

As to the question about planetary authorities restricting the gathering of such information, well, that's possible for starports that are outside of Imperial control, but since the primary spaceport is always controlled by the Imperium, the effect of a dictatorship throttling the dissemination of information would be limited.

But I certainly welcome the discussions!

 

[DFW]

You could do that without any kind of public datanet agreement.

Right. I wasn't thinking of that. Just info gathered "in the pub".

 

[kafka]

Hrm, I guess I should clarify this some more.

The kind of information carried in this scenario is not anything that would not be publicly available prior to transit. It's meant to assist traffic control in knowing when starships are due in, to provide headline news to be dumped into planetary datanets (or first sifted through by local governments before release), and to let spaceports and their ancillary businesses when they can expect prospective customers.

Information such as inbound cargos and other information specific to a merchant's cargo might or might not be included. I would suspect some ships might not want to let on what they are carrying. Then again, some might, for by passing that information to a market prior to arrival, they may be able to sell their cargo faster because people know it's coming.

But the idea wasn't meant to replace mail deliveries, nor does it have anything to do with the X-boat network. Because of the sheer number and frequency of merchant and passenger liner departures, basic ship traffic and new information can be disseminated much faster.

As to the question about planetary authorities restricting the gathering of such information, well, that's possible for starports that are outside of Imperial control, but since the primary spaceport is always controlled by the Imperium, the effect of a dictatorship throttling the dissemination of information would be limited.

But I certainly welcome the discussions!

Most definitely, this not public knowledge...it is a guarded secret by the SPA. This is not to say that the SPA would not share this information with the planetary government...and if some things would happen to leak to a rival megacorporation...well heads would fly in the SPA, a witch hunt would follow, then offending parties would get reassigned to sanitation stations on Ruckus III.

In the case of private Starports, it would be buyer beware...which is why many megacorporations invest in creating their own facilities and agreements with planetary governments.

In around the main worlds and gas giants, this is prime real estate, a holding company composed of the planetary government and SPA would administer these rights. If the world has not yet achieved space flight this could be delegated to an Imperial body (including, a Megacorporation which would pay taxes to the planetary government thereby creating the economic basis of the planetary nobility)....ain't Imperialism great!

So, yes, one could hack into the SPA computer and find out that a shipment of machine parts is heading to Titanus from Regina but where on Ttianus or even if the shipment is still needed is a dice roll. True, the Megacorporations, like, Transnational Corporations today are large Centrally Planned Economies onto themselves but it does not stop the little guys (Free Traders) from filling supply gaps.

It is said that the Imperial Economy is Competitive Capitalism, and to a certain extent it is. But, like, all economies they operate on different levels and scales across space and time. The larger the scale - the larger the space and time. Everyday market transactions are like individuals doing a business of one. You, a EU citizen, can certainly contact and sell glass from the Czech Republic in China but would you as an individual be able to sell your product in the big department stores in across China. That time of planning is hard for just one individual...so you would have to grow...before long...you would get the attention of one of the big trading companies that dominate the Asian market who would seek to buy you out or undercut you. So it is with the Imperium save nobody can take the sky away from the free traders (unless they go bankrupt then the banks take possession of your starship).