Common Magic Spell Questions

[SetentaeBolg]

Hi

I recently bought RQII and was very impressed overall. It seems much more readable than the 1st edition (which could be partly down to typeface/formatting issues as I much prefer the new look), but the new rules changes are very good, very welcome additions.

I was reading the Common Magic section last night, though, and I noticed a few seeming issues:

Firstly, the spell "Fate" lets you add +/- 10% per point of Magnitude to the next skill check made by a friend or enemy (enemies get a resistance check). Compared to the many other common magic spells that give bonuses to the next skill check within a specific area (the Entertainer one, for example), this seems clearly superior. Is this intentional?

Secondly, the spell "Darkwall" says that its radius is equal to the magnitude in meters, but the spell is not progressive. So its radius would appear to be 2m on all occasions. Compared to the other darkness spell (can't remember what it's called, something like "Boon of Blessed Night"?), the level of darkness created is different: Darkwall creates utter darkness and BOBN creates candlelight level*? Additionally, BOBN is progressive. Again, is this intentional?

If so, a brief explanation of the design intention behind the spells might help me understand what distinction/use they should have in play.

Thanks

Mark

*I'm not sure of the specifics here, but this is my hazy recollection.

 

[Loz]

Fate is an Instant spell - so as soon as you touch and cast the spell, then the skill gains the bonus based on Magnitude and that's it; its gone.

The other skill enhancing spells, such as Bladesharp, give +5% and an additional benefit, such as damage, and are duration-based spells. Thus, Fate's +10% is a way of balancing out benefit, effect and duration.

Boon of Lasting Night is the progressive spell that reduces light conditions to candlelight. There's a subtle difference between it and Darkwall. Darkwall extinguishes all light, which will certainly favour some races such as trolls. Its also Ranged; Boon of Lasting Night isn't. However Darkwall isn't meant to be a progressive spell, so the Magnitude reference is erroneous.

Many of the Common Magic spells have quite subtle effects that are revealed only when you look at the full attributes of the spell. Used creatively, similar-sounding spells can have very different effects and applications.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

I recently bought RQII and was very impressed overall. It seems much more readable than the 1st edition (which could be partly down to typeface/formatting issues as I much prefer the new look), but the new rules changes are very good, very welcome additions.

Thanks! Spread the word.

Firstly, the spell "Fate" lets you add +/- 10% per point of Magnitude to the next skill check made by a friend or enemy (enemies get a resistance check). Compared to the many other common magic spells that give bonuses to the next skill check within a specific area (the Entertainer one, for example), this seems clearly superior. Is this intentional?

Its a slight oversight on my part. If you find Fate too unbalancing you can easily make it +5% per Magnitude, or restrict its access to specific cults.

Secondly, the spell "Darkwall" says that its radius is equal to the magnitude in meters, but the spell is not progressive. So its radius would appear to be 2m on all occasions. Compared to the other darkness spell (can't remember what it's called, something like "Boon of Blessed Night"?), the level of darkness created is different: Darkwall creates utter darkness and BOBN creates candlelight level*? Additionally, BOBN is progressive. Again, is this intentional?

The balance is that Darkwall produces pitch darkness which can be used offensively. If it was progressive, an enterprising player can potentially neutralise groups of enemies, albeit briefly, with little cost. BoLN only damps down the current light level and is of more use passively for trolls and similar creatures, allowing them to operate in sunlight.

If so, a brief explanation of the design intention behind the spells might help me understand what distinction/use they should have in play.

Of course! The fundamental intent was to roughly balance the spells, so they were all equally useful. Second was ensuring each spell still meshed with the revised game mechanics. Lastly they were standardised in terms of duration, casting time and area, for faster play.

Hope this helps.

 

[SetentaeBolg]

Hi

Thanks for the response. My question regarding Fate didn't concern spells like Bladesharp - the distinction between the two is quite well drawn, as Bladesharp gives a skill boost and a damage boost over a sustained period of time. It's more to do with the other purely skill boosting common magic spells, which also give +10% per point of magnitude to the next skill check made, but which restrict the skills which can be affected and also have no offensive potential (as Fate does). Fate seems to be strictly better than these - I don't have my book, but there were quite a few in this category, centred around different skills.

If the intent is that Fate can only affect an action taken in the next Combat Round (or Combat Action etc), I think that an official clarification to that effect would be useful.

Please can you let me know your thoughts on this. There is a possibility I'm misremembering how the other +10%/magnitude spells work, I read the book late last night (and I'm very tired today as a direct consequence, damn yer hide for writing such a good book!)

With respect to the Boon of Lasting Night, I hadn't noticed that Darkwall is ranged. I did think it would be superior for Trolls, and that it has a distinct purpose in that respect, so I take your point. I think I just thought the spells were very similar and I was wondering the circumstances in which they could be used. If Darkwall is ranged, that gives it good use against archers/enemy casters etc, so the distinction is more clear, thank you.

EDIT: Cross post! This above was in response to Loz. Pete seems to have cleared the Fate issue up. I think I'll restrict it to the next Combat Action, which should minimise the problem.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

If the intent is that Fate can only affect an action taken in the next Combat Round (or Combat Action etc), I think that an official clarification to that effect would be useful.

Bugger, now I remember why it was left at +/-10%. As it says in the spell description "Only the next Skill Test made after (resisting) the spell's casting is affected". I.e. it gets burned almost instantly, and not necessarily on the thing you wanted.

 

[SetentaeBolg]

Hi Pete

That's fine for the cursing effect: the victim might spend the next action sprinting, make an Athletics check to jump over a bush, and you were hoping it'd make them miss an attack.

But the beneficial effect, if the "time limit" isn't expressly spelled out, is still superior to that of the other skill-boosting spells (if they are of the +10% per point of Magnitude variety).

A PC can cast the spell that boosts "Sing" for example before a performance, or he can cast an equal magnitude "Fate". In this case, the "Fate" is equally as good, but has far wider general utility (as it can boost any other skill and curse enemies as well). A GM could put in place specific obstacles to disrupt the spell's benefit (for example, while he is singing, a wench flutters her eye lashes and he must make a Persistence test to retain concentration, using the Fate's benefit), but this shouldn't be too common or it could become a case of heavy handed GM intervention and players may feel frustrated.

For this reason, I think a "time limit" (perhaps one combat round or one combat action) should be put in place, or as you suggest, half the benefit/penalty.

I'm not meaning to be cheeky, I just happened to notice this late last night!

Thanks again for the response.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

I'm not meaning to be cheeky, I just happened to notice this late last night!

No problem!

The intent was that the spell is used immediately (on the next CA). Its just that I didn't clearly state it as being so. My oversight, sorry.

 

[gran_orco]

The balance is that Darkwall produces pitch darkness which can be used offensively. If it was progressive, an enterprising player can potentially neutralise groups of enemies, albeit briefly, with little cost. BoLN only damps down the current light level and is of more use passively for trolls and similar creatures, allowing them to operate in sunlight.

So, Boon of Lasting Night can be cast on a weapon, for exemple, and be in motion with it, while Dawkwall has a fixed area. Am I right?

 

[Denalor]

Page 107 of the rulebook states the maximum magnitude allowed for common magic being dependent on the char's INT.

In regard to total number of spells known...
Divine Magic is limited by dedicated POW
Sorcery is limited by the char's INT
Is there also a limit as to how many common spells one might learn ?

 

[Mongoose Pete]

In regard to total number of spells known...
Divine Magic is limited by dedicated POW
Sorcery is limited by the char's INT

And Spirit Magic is limited by the char's CHA.

Is there also a limit as to how many common spells one might learn ?

No, not in the RAW. You can technically learn as many as you are willing to spend Improvement Rolls on gaining.

From a setting perspective, the player can learn as many as his cult or cults give him access to. Its up to the GM to place limits if he wants them.

 

[Sorn]

I have a question on Disruption. If say you are casting it at magnitude 3, does it hit three random locations for 1d3 each, or one random location for 3d3 (which would be very powerful in my opinion). I'm tempted to believe the first is correct, since Common magic is "weaker", but I just wanted to check.

 

[Ultor]

I'd missed the fact that Disruption was now progressive. That's a big change and makes the old "rat killer" a nice offensive spell now. Thanks for mentioning this!

 

[Mongoose Pete]

I have a question on Disruption. If say you are casting it at magnitude 3, does it hit three random locations for 1d3 each, or one random location for 3d3 (which would be very powerful in my opinion). I'm tempted to believe the first is correct, since Common magic is "weaker", but I just wanted to check.

It is the first. Each location is random.

 

[Denalor]

Multimissile

That spell has a range of touch, so you obviously need to touch the weapon in question.
1) Am I right in assuming that in the case of weapons using ammunition you need to cast the spell on the ammunition and not on the weapon itself, e.g. on the arrow rather than the bow

2) To be able to touch the weapon, you first need to ready it ? Thus, you'd ready the bow (first CA), then you'd ready the arrow (second CA) and then you'd cast Multimissile (CA dependent on magnitude)

3) What is the physical nature of the magical missile ? Does it profit from all possible weapon-specific combat manoeuvres (Impale, Stun Location, Bleed, Entangle, Pin Weapon).

4) And does the magical missile remain to be a weapon of that type ?

E.g. a multimissile'd arrow streaks toward the enemy and the magical missile may choose 1 CM (it hits while the evade is a failure). May the shooter opt "Impale" and thus cause
a) potentially more damage,
b) -10% to the victim's skills due to the magical arrow remaining stuck and
c) the need to remove it (Brawn test and further damage) ?

 

[Mongoose Pete]

Hi Denalor

Multimissile
That spell has a range of touch, so you obviously need to touch the weapon in question.
1) Am I right in assuming that in the case of weapons using ammunition you need to cast the spell on the ammunition and not on the weapon itself, e.g. on the arrow rather than the bow

As the examples in the spell suggest, it is supposed to be the ammunition, or the weapon if the weapon itself is thrown.

2) To be able to touch the weapon, you first need to ready it ? Thus, you'd ready the bow (first CA), then you'd ready the arrow (second CA) and then you'd cast Multimissile (CA dependent on magnitude)

Not exactly. Since the spell has the Trigger condition, you could have cast it up to five minutes earlier. But if you are doing it the last moment, reloading the ammunition/weapon is a separate action to casting the spell.

You can assume that (within reason) the spell is transmitted to the ammunition through the weapon you are holding. I.e. don't penalise a guy using a crossbow or blowpipe because you have a pendant in the party.

3) What is the physical nature of the magical missile ? Does it profit from all possible weapon-specific combat manoeuvres (Impale, Stun Location, Bleed, Entangle, Pin Weapon).

It is not physical, the magical missiles do not gain their own manoeuvres. I'm sure I could come up with a techno-babble excuse, but the point of it is to keep the spell from being a death sentence.

4) And does the magical missile remain to be a weapon of that type ?

No it instantly vaporises/vanishes/melts/ whatever.

Assume any CM earned by a multimissiled attack only affects the original missile or thrown weapon. The phantom duplicates gain no other benefit save to inflicting extra damage.

 

[Denalor]

I have another one

Dullblade
I find it a bit tough that there is no Resist for that spell and I find it hard to decide whether this ought to be Resist (Persistence) or Resist (Resilence). But perhaps the omission was actually on purpose ? Can you elaborate on the reasoning behind that ?
I always found that hindering your enemies is actually better than buffing yourself, so I tend to hit my players with Demoralize, Darkwall, Slow and similar spells. But if Dullblade allows no resist, it becomes a very tough spell versus PCs.

 

[Denalor]

I'm only just now realizing that Dullblade also had no resistance in MRQI... umm... really strange, must have completely slipped though my hands. Obviously need to re-check my former MRQI-houserules to resolve this

 

[Loz]

You're targeting an inanimate object; not a person. To prevent Dullblade you could use Countermagic Shield. However, without such a spell, the weapon itself has no resistance to magic: no Persistence, no Resilience.

Cast on a magical weapon, I would rule that magical damage is not affected - only the mundane damage.

 

[junagu]

Boon of Lasting Night isn't listed in the cultural magic tables. Which cultures can have it?

 

[Loz]

Boon of Lasting Night isn't listed in the cultural magic tables. Which cultures can have it?

That's an 'All' spell.