Combat - Decapitation and severed limbs?

[Archer]

Hmm, I just realized a thing after reading through the rules about injuries again. I know this is to be the devils advocate and a stickler for rules, but;

Not only does decapitation of body parts not occur according to MRQ rules, but should it actually occur, you will still die since there are no way to save your sorry life.

If the location does not recover within a number of Combat Rounds equal to half the characters CON+POW, the character dies from blood loss, shock and internal injuries.

Tough luck if it is not there anymore.

Had this been RQ3/any BRP clone, it would have sufficed to give first aid or heal Total Hit Points, but nope. No chance to survive loss of body parts in MRQ

 

[GoingDown]

So far I have ran only some test combats - real thing is still to come. But, I am only thinking of one small rule:

If hit location goes down from positive number to negative lower than its original points with one hit, then it is decapitated - and in case of abdomen, chest or head, there is no resilence roll at all - character will die immediately.
For example, if left arm has 1 hp left, (original was 4) - when somebody hits 6 points of damage, it is severed or maimed.

That should make interesting and deadly combats.

 

[Vadrus]

Hmm, I just realized a thing after reading through the rules about injuries again. I know this is to be the devils advocate and a stickler for rules, but;

Not only does decapitation of body parts not occur according to MRQ rules, but should it actually occur, you will still die since there are no way to save your sorry life.

If the location does not recover within a number of Combat Rounds equal to half the characters CON+POW, the character dies from blood loss, shock and internal injuries.

Tough luck if it is not there anymore.

Had this been RQ3/any BRP clone, it would have sufficed to give first aid or heal Total Hit Points, but nope. No chance to survive loss of body parts in MRQ

Looks like Divine Magic users have a use after all, Regrow Limb (Mag 2 spell) re-attaches limbs and leaves the location on 1 HP.


Vadrus

 

[algauble]

I did a simple combat with 3 players vs a troll and 2 trollkin and it all went smoothly. Beginning characters.

I was using a houserule counting down strike ranks for actions (every 6 srs = 1 action) , and it made it easy to keep track of what was going on - when people lost actions due to injury you just score off the actions they would have taken.

Takes a little bit of bookkeeping.

With low resilience rolls everyone drops pretty fast.

I thought this houserule looked like it had a lot of potential. How do you handle reactions? Are they equal in number to the actions and used up as per the rules as written?

a very good old rule is the table turn.....
fisrt, the quickest then when the "mass" comes to act then, this is where the table turn arrives, it works enoughly well (something like 15/17 years of 5 to7 players around the table in all rpg....).
this is the most efficient one...because the players all have a time to speak a another to think before acting...

I'm not sure I understand... are you talking about going around the table one at a time starting with the quickest player's character, then going clockwise (or counterclockwise) one player at a time?

As for hit locations being disabled, one idea I haven't heard much discussed but that I think should work quite well would be to use total HP as per previous RQ (possibly allowing up to -HP to allow room for incapacitation without death), then use the locational HP as wound threshholds... take 4 HP damage from an axe, subtract 4 from your total HP, and if you only have 4HP in that location, the location is disabled; if you take 2xlocational HP the location is maimed or severed; if you take < locational HP, subtract from total HP and that's it. Next player.

 

[zanshin]

thought this houserule looked like it had a lot of potential. How do you handle reactions? Are they equal in number to the actions and used up as per the rules as written?

I let dex determine number of reactions so that stays static , but with SR (average int/dex) plus random roll determining actions and initiative the dex break point become less crucial.

Also makes for more 'roll excitement' with strike rank , which my players like.

Makes surprise very harsh though, which i was happy with.

 

[Archer]

As for hit locations being disabled, one idea I haven't heard much discussed but that I think should work quite well would be to use total HP as per previous RQ (possibly allowing up to -HP to allow room for incapacitation without death), then use the locational HP as wound threshholds... take 4 HP damage from an axe, subtract 4 from your total HP, and if you only have 4HP in that location, the location is disabled; if you take 2xlocational HP the location is maimed or severed; if you take < locational HP, subtract from total HP and that's it. Next player.

Intressting idea. Would have to calculate Total Hit points every time you are going to use a monster from RQ though, but that is not much of a problem, unless you are going to try to run creatures straight of the bat.

So far I have ran only some test combats - real thing is still to come. But, I am only thinking of one small rule:

If hit location goes down from positive number to negative lower than its original points with one hit, then it is decapitated - and in case of abdomen, chest or head, there is no resilence roll at all - character will die immediately.
For example, if left arm has 1 hp left, (original was 4) - when somebody hits 6 points of damage, it is severed or maimed.

That should make interesting and deadly combats.

The automatic death sure is a good idea. If you take a blow that sends you beyond -HP in one blow (head, chest, abdomen), you automatically die, no roll.
That would solve the "catapult in the head for 50pts and I am still running around alive and conscious for POW+CON rounds" issue.

 

[Nagisawa]

Y'know. No offence here, but... Wouldn't common sense be applicable here? I mean if the head is mangled/severed, shouldn't death be instantaneous?

I keep hearing on how RQ players are system-tinkerers, why not say if you take so much more damage than you have HP, it's gone?

 

[Archer]

Y'know. No offence here, but... Wouldn't common sense be applicable here? I mean if the head is mangled/severed, shouldn't death be instantaneous?

I would think so, but it seems the RQ system designers does not. Even with a mangled head you get to roll Resilience to see if you die or not, if you stay conscious or not.

I keep hearing on how RQ players are system-tinkerers, why not say if you take so much more damage than you have HP, it's gone?

I would expect such basic things to be in the rules, as it has been in previous incarnations of RQ. Sadly it is not in current version, and we have to come up with a rule that works well.

 

[Halfbat]

I've actually run in-game a 7 player + NPCs vs 7 attackers and it went quite smoothly. ::shrugs:: it's a little more time consuming than a similar sized fracas in D20, but the saves were straightforward and as long as you have a good NPC tracking sheet with the key info it goes simple enough (I'll post the one I use as an example if anyone asks).

Y'know. No offence here, but... Wouldn't common sense be applicable here? I mean if the head is mangled/severed, shouldn't death be instantaneous?

Mmmm.... but that's not quite what the rules are necessarily representing. If a head takes enough damage in a single blow and the saves suggest a death, _then_ it might be that the head is severed but you can't tell from the initial damage roll.

 

[Archer]

That is just the thing, I never expected RQ to be slower than d20 (which is one of the slowest systems I have used). I expected it to at least be on par with Stormbringer 5, if not faster.
It is only simpler in some aspects compared to d20, while much more burdensome in the mechanics in other aspects. I find it almost laughable that someone manage to take the RQ/BRP mechanics and make it that much slower in play.

But I shall end my scowling. Sorry.

This thread is mainly about how to make it faster, and how to get limbs chopped off.

Only way I see to speed things up to the level I want it is to drop the HPs/Hit Location (will also get rid of the punching bag syndrome), use Total HP only. A hit dealing 1/2 of total HP will then incur a Major Wound (just like Stormbringer 5), which leads to a body part being removed. It also takes care of the "50 points in the head, dies in X minutes" syndrome that currently plagues the combat system.

By removing the "loss of CA" and introducing the melee ranges of Close, Medium and Long from Stormbringer, you get the a tactical manuvering as the "loss of CA" mechanic introduce into the game, while it also plays out as something that the character does, you get a feel of action and movement into the combat. To move between the different melee combat ranges you make opposed dodge rolls (to close distance or further it).

And with that I am half-way through to make my own game, having modified almost the whole combat system. And that is something I wish to avoid. :roll:

Any other suggestions on how to speed RQ combat without rewriting the whole chapter?

Mmmm.... but that's not quite what the rules are necessarily representing. If a head takes enough damage in a single blow and the saves suggest a death, _then_ it might be that the head is severed but you can't tell from the initial damage roll.

Which is what made my raise the question in the first place. The rules are not written to support the text about lost body parts.

 

[Nagisawa]

I guess it's my years of DnD that makes me disregard what *I* think are oversights or silliness.

And I freely admit to being much more leniant over percieved mistakes.

 

[Archer]

Sorry for my earlier post being quite negative, was in a bad mood when I wrote it. While I still think the system is a bit too slow to be used for the setting I am writing for RuneQuest, I really really really want to make it work.

I have already spent 6+ months of writing on the setting specifically for RuneQuest (began before the rules were available) and even longer before that writing on it for d20. I jumped to RQ as soon as I heard about it being OGL, since D&D would be a worse fit due to the its slow nature, sterotypical classes, and definite distinction between good and evil.

My wish to make RQ faster stems from the strong desire to use it for my own setting, and I had very high expectations on RQ.

So far though, we have discussed the chopping off of limbs.

I think the intent of the rules was that a limb that suffered enough damage to reach -HP in one blow would be cut off. Unforutnately it is not stated as such, and the "Save vs Death/Unconsciousness" rules mesh poorly with that intent.

Because a certain aspect of the setting I am writing needs the ability for limbs to be chopped off (you will understand when you read it), I need to find the best rule to include in the setting that modifies how the default RQ rules work (I had hoped that such a basic staple of RQ would be included int he basic rules).

Secondly I am in need of a system that plays faster in combat. And that is the big snag at the moment.