Close and Personal

[Nerhesi]

Feedback:

Melee weapons somehow lose some great abilities as they go up in TL. Example, half-armour.

Half-armour penetration is key to allow melee weapons to even be of value. Arc weapons, grav hammers, psi weapons, and mono filament blades need to have this ability. Without it, you simply lose any value of mounting these weapons on advanced battle fields, which means these weapons shouldn't exist because they are TL13+ themselves.

Really consider having this as to allow for the coolness/cinematic value of having powered armour/poly carpace/battledress wanting to do anything up-close and personal

 

[MongooseMatt]

Remember these weapons tend to have high damage scores too, which will go a long way to overcoming whatever armour is left over...

 

[Nerhesi]

Remember these weapons tend to have high damage scores too, which will go a long way to overcoming whatever armour is left over...

Number Crunching:
Top Melee Weapons (TL13-16):
Arc-Weapon (5D +2 AP 10) = avg 29 / max 42
Grav Hammer (5D AP 10) = avg 27 / max 42
Psi Blade wielded by PSI 15!! (2D+4) = avg 11 / max 31 (by spending all 15 points)

All damage is increased by +effect and + str DM

Top Armour Setups (TL13-15)
Powered Armour (20) + Cloth (4) = 24
Powered Armour (20) + Cloth (4) + Subdermal (5) = 29
Battle Dress (28 avg) + Cloth (4) = 32
Battle Dress (28 avg) + Cloth (4) + Subdermal (5) = 37

None of these above armour take into account the top-layer that can be added. Since it would only apply 1-4 points vs melee weapons that would easily account for most +effect and +str. So for simplicity's sake, it is avoided here.

The comparison clearly shows that:

(a)The top end weapons will not penetrate, on average, a player who has invested into power armour and the other improvements (subdermal and cloth).
(b) They will penetrate, on average, an "NPC powered armour trooper". I dont consider subdermal an option for the random NPC (costly, time intensive, etc)
(c) The best weapons really have no hope to ever penetrate battle-dress, to my original post, which is something that would be cool to have. A rule that battle dress adds 10 AP to all wielded melee weapons would be an easy fix Matt - (or 10 damage) described as the "larger, deadlier" more advanced versions of those weapons.
(d) PSI weapons are in need of a major overhaul. If anything required the 1/2 armour mod AND improved damage, it is them. It really should be clear that a PSI-blade needs to be superior to the arc-blade. Work from there

 

[MongooseMatt]

Okay, for various reasons I don't want to introduce a 'half armour' rule. However, keep an eye on the next revision. These weapons are now as potent as they should be

 

[Nerhesi]

Okay, for various reasons I don't want to introduce a 'half armour' rule. However, keep an eye on the next revision. These weapons are now as potent as they should be

Understood - will review soon

 

[Nerhesi]

Matt - big boss, I think I missed it.

I see Arc Axe, Grav Hammer and PSI-weapons have not changed... unless I missed it?

Anyone else please correct me as well if you notice a change?

 

[MongooseMatt]

My bad, I didn't slip it in after all - this is the Gravity Hammer;

Gravity Hammer: The basic concept of the gravity hammer’s use (smash stuff) hides a truly sophisticated weapon that has become known as the epitome of bludgeoning weaponry. Inside the super-dense head of the hammer is a small gravitic generator that twists and multiplies the effective kinetic force the weapon creates when swung. The slight gyroscopic pull of the gravity hammer does make it difficult to control mid-swing, creating an additional amount of weight to compensate for.

Weapon TL Range Damage Kg Cost Traits
Gravity Hammer 13 Melee 5D 5 Cr10000 AP 50, Bulky, Smasher

 

[Nerhesi]

My bad, I didn't slip it in after all - this is the Gravity Hammer;

Gravity Hammer: The basic concept of the gravity hammer’s use (smash stuff) hides a truly sophisticated weapon that has become known as the epitome of bludgeoning weaponry. Inside the super-dense head of the hammer is a small gravitic generator that twists and multiplies the effective kinetic force the weapon creates when swung. The slight gyroscopic pull of the gravity hammer does make it difficult to control mid-swing, creating an additional amount of weight to compensate for.

Weapon TL Range Damage Kg Cost Traits
Gravity Hammer 13 Melee 5D 5 Cr10000 AP 50, Bulky, Smasher

:shock:

Hold up - we dont need it really. You indirectly fixed it bud

What I realised, and thought you were going to say, was that with Battle-Dress Integrated Mount, you can, and I quote, "Up to four weapons of the same type fitted to the same suit of battle dress... only one attack roll is made, but +1 damage is added for every additional weapon after the first, per damage dice. ". So scaling a weapon for a battledress is now fixed

Example:
4 x Arc Weapon = 5D+2 AP10, with a bonus of +15 damage for being a large monstrous version.

As for the Grav Hammer, making it AP20 is still a good idea though (definitely not 50 though - wowzers)

 

[MongooseMatt]

As for the Grav Hammer, making it AP20 is still a good idea though (definitely not 50 though - wowzers)

Before you make a judgement on that, think Halo, and then take a look at the possible armour values of vehicles...

 

[Nerhesi]

As for the Grav Hammer, making it AP20 is still a good idea though (definitely not 50 though - wowzers)

Before you make a judgement on that, think Halo, and then take a look at the possible armour values of vehicles...

I totally get it - I'd love that.

My concern is about, now think HALO - and you're 1-shotting battle armour with a hammer. I shudder to think about Zhodani Consular Guard.. Teleporting troops with grav hammer.. whoahz!

I really hope you didn't think along the lines of.. "and now, to Shut Nerhesi up, AP50! How do you like that mr balance?"

 

[MongooseMatt]

My concern is about, now think HALO - and you're 1-shotting battle armour with a hammer. I shudder to think about Zhodani Consular Guard.. Teleporting troops with grav hammer.. whoahz!

I am kinda okay with that, I think. It really is supposed to be the mother of all CC weapons - and remember, just because it is in CSC, doesn't automatically mean it is in the Third Imperium...

Happy to leave that one to refs.

I really hope you didn't think along the lines of.. "and now, to Shut Nerhesi up, AP50! How do you like that mr balance?"

It is a lovely thought