Classic Traveller vs Mongoose Traveller

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Mercenary gets a bit of a panning...

That, unfortunately, would be mostly my fault. Between writing Mercenary when the actual Trav rules were not quite set in stone and shooting (no pun intended) for a fun gaming supplement instead of a hard-crunch factbook, it kind of missed the mark with many of the Trav fans.

It did well with people who wanted a fun book for their games, but it did not fair very well with the real-world militarists (of which I am NOT) or the set-in-the-ways old CT types.

Hell, I wrote it and use it heavily in my own Trav chronicle, but compared to the other Trav stuff I've done thus far, I give it a solid "C".

-Bry

Well, I'll keep an open mind. Maybe if it wasnt called Mercenary, it would have got a fair hearing. The original Merc is kind of the jewel in the crown of a pretty nifty crown, so, its a tough job living up to those kind of memories.

 

[captainjack23]

Mercenary gets a bit of a panning...

That, unfortunately, would be mostly my fault. Between writing Mercenary when the actual Trav rules were not quite set in stone and shooting (no pun intended) for a fun gaming supplement instead of a hard-crunch factbook, it kind of missed the mark with many of the Trav fans.

It did well with people who wanted a fun book for their games, but it did not fair very well with the real-world militarists (of which I am NOT) or the set-in-the-ways old CT types.

Hell, I wrote it and use it heavily in my own Trav chronicle, but compared to the other Trav stuff I've done thus far, I give it a solid "C".

-Bry

Well.....and this isn't intended to start an argument.....but while Merc did raise a lot of bars for traveller and RPG suppliments production and quality wise -plus upgrading traveller chargen - semi-long term it pretty much killed the traveller groups I was in in the way back then if you weren't into the "play a mercenary" scene. I often wonder how things would have been different if Merc hadn't been book 4 - say, scouts, or merchant prince instead.


Plus, putting fusion gun equipped armored troopers in the hands of 16 year olds playing noble-rank retired major generals with more decorations than audie murphy ..... well, munchkin doesn't begin to describe the effect -

Which is just my way of saying, even if the hardware was well described, some of it was pretty off the wall, too. Just because it's accurate or technically well imagined doen't mean its good for a campaign....in 1978.....with teenage boys in "Kiss Alive '75" T-shirts......oh, the shame.....


All of the above (BTW) is to only be taken as my observations about my local groups, and reflect, if offensive, only my own poorgrasp of the English language.....above opinion for entertainment purposes only, user experience may vary, individual interpretations may be more correct, consult your rhetoric and manners coaches before becoming enraged; do not vaporize and inhale, not a striking object, not a step. Negative responses lasting over four hours should be blamed on the original writer, consult your psychologist immediately.

Well, I'll keep an open mind. Maybe if it wasnt called Mercenary, it would have got a fair hearing. The original Merc is kind of the jewel in the crown of a pretty nifty crown, so, its a tough job living up to those kind of memories.

.....wow. Are you sure you belong in an online forum ?

 

[Infojunky]

Mercenary gets a bit of a panning...

That, unfortunately, would be mostly my fault. Between writing Mercenary when the actual Trav rules were not quite set in stone and shooting (no pun intended) for a fun gaming supplement instead of a hard-crunch factbook, it kind of missed the mark with many of the Trav fans.

Apart from the technical sections the book was fine, the added careers are hoot. That includes the fluff up to the technical section.

By far the biggest failing in the Mongoose edition is solely in the technical aspects of the game. The writing about hardware needs more attention to engineering details, in that whoever write the fluff needs to have a clue about the actual physics and terminology of the device in question.

The second and probably the biggest problem with the in game technical aspects is that there is no internal scale, all the numbers are arbitrary and it's obvious.

The another technical bitch is y'all need a proofreader or a better one, an editor would be nice....

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

captainjack23

Well I dont know what you mean about being on a forum, Im sure.

However, Mercenary was a splat book, but quickly followed by Scout, High Guard and Merc Prince, so the whole system became slightly more high powered, or skills based. And more fun to play. I dont know why you would have a problem with 16 year olds playing retired generals, its science fantasy, after all. What do you want?

As for the military being emphasised, well, thats what GDW did best. Look at Twilight 2000 and 2300 AD. That, indeed, was the name of their game.

Its fun to play a middle aged veteran with three rolls of Counter Insurgency when youre 16! Isnt it?

 

[spinwardpirate]

Plus, putting fusion gun equipped armored troopers in the hands of 16 year olds playing noble-rank retired major generals with more decorations than audie murphy ..... well, munchkin doesn't begin to describe the effect -

Funny. I sat with my old friends around a table yesterday for something like 11 hours, playing Mongoose Traveller for the first time, and while reminiscing about the old days, someone said nearly that exact same thing. But playing that type of character was fun. And fun is why we do this, innit?

Over the years... errrr... decades... my definition of fun has changed. But I won't deny I found playing munchkin Traveller fun at one time.

 

[Vile]

It's one of the landmark moments of Traveller gaming when you are suddenly older than the characters you play ...

 

[BP]

It's one of the landmark moments of Traveller gaming when you are suddenly older than the characters you play ...

Thanks a lot Vile :shock: - that thought had never entered my (admitted decaying) mind... :?

[Guess we need to allow more terms - and ranks like supreme commander and president - new mustering out benefits (like new teeth, geriatric nurse, etc.) -oh, and plasma fusion cannon wheel chairs are probably in order :lol:]

 

[AndrewW]

Well, you are playing a role after all and usually that would be one that you wouldn't normally. How many playing powerful wizards really are? Or say one playing an aslan or elf?

 

[GypsyComet]

However, Mercenary was a splat book, but quickly followed by Scout, High Guard and Merc Prince, so the whole system became slightly more high powered, or skills based.

Quickly? You realize GDW was on a *quarterly* release schedule back then, right? If Mongoose were on the same pace GDW was with the original releases, we would just now be seeing Mercenary and hearing hints of High Guard, and Scouts would be over a year away. Merchant Prince would be THREE years away.

 

[brionl]

However, Mercenary was a splat book, but quickly followed by Scout, High Guard and Merc Prince, so the whole system became slightly more high powered, or skills based.

One thing that they got right this time is that the new careers don't instantly make the careers in the main rulebook obsolete. After Mercenary came out, the group would usually consist of 3 Army, 2 Marines, and 1 obligatory Scout (for the type S benefit).

When the game is skill based, and the new careers give you 2-3 times as many skills/term as the base careers, nobody played the old careers any more.

 

[B_Steele]

One thing that they got right this time is that the new careers don't instantly make the careers in the main rulebook obsolete.

That was one of my specific goals when I was working out how the new career stuff worked in Mercenary. I have always hated it when new sourcebooks completely invalidate or overshadow the core book. It is something we do not want to ever have happen in Mongoose's Traveller.

-Bry

 

[AndrewW]

One thing that they got right this time is that the new careers don't instantly make the careers in the main rulebook obsolete.

That was one of my specific goals when I was working out how the new career stuff worked in Mercenary. I have always hated it when new sourcebooks completely invalidate or overshadow the core book. It is something we do not want to ever have happen in Mongoose's Traveller.

-Bry

Have to say you did a good job with that. Once the other books came out with classic I don't imagine those that didn't get one got much use (Other, Supplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium).

 

[Gamerguy]

8)
Well, I will say although the production quality of Mongoose Traveller artwork may not be upto Classic LBB standards, it does compare OK with Gurps Traveller.

I just finished the last published adventure I had that was unplayed for Gurps traveller - Bounty Hunters and it - like all the rest of the Gurps Traveller adventures was simply fantastic.

Now production wise its a Gurps book. Like Mongoose Traveller books are Traveller books published by Mongoose.

There is always the opportunity for Mongoose to do 2nd editions of the Core rulebook and Mercinary to rework the art and fix a few things.

High Guard for CT was reworked into a 2nd edition that was much better than the origonal one.

8)

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

However, Mercenary was a splat book, but quickly followed by Scout, High Guard and Merc Prince, so the whole system became slightly more high powered, or skills based.

Quickly? You realize GDW was on a *quarterly* release schedule back then, right? If Mongoose were on the same pace GDW was with the original releases, we would just now be seeing Mercenary and hearing hints of High Guard, and Scouts would be over a year away. Merchant Prince would be THREE years away.

Well, quick enough for a small independent games company, right? Mongoose release schedule is extraordinary, hardly common for a paper rpg company. And theyve suffered in the past from this breakneck pace. Im sure you will also see in two or three years, MGT 2nd edition, rendering all your previous purchases obsolete (a la RQ, Slaine and Paranoia). If they slowed down, they may not need to change the art within a few months either. Maybe theres something to be said for gradual supplemental material? (But thats another issue).

I dont know what all the fuss is about either. Sure merc characters were a bit overpowered, but thats what you would expect in a 'hard' sf game. Being overpowered in Traveller meant having Mechanical-3 instead of Mechanical-1. Hardly a game breaker. My group included of two girls amongst the guys, one was a Merchant, the other, a Scout. There were others, Navy characters, etc., but actually only one Mercenary. The number of skill gradients was never a big issue to us. We just played Traveller and lived without being constantly fed new material.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Im sure you will also see in two or three years, MGT 2nd edition, rendering all your previous purchases obsolete (a la RQ, Slaine and Paranoia).

Not to correct you, but you'll not only find that all previous Paranoia books are compatible with the new edition (and that applies to most RQ books as well), but we have also made a commitement to _not_ do another edition of Traveller within ten years of the original launch.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Im sure you will also see in two or three years, MGT 2nd edition, rendering all your previous purchases obsolete (a la RQ, Slaine and Paranoia).

Not to correct you, but you'll not only find that all previous Paranoia books are compatible with the new edition (and that applies to most RQ books as well), but we have also made a commitement to _not_ do another edition of Traveller within ten years of the original launch.

I stand corrected!

However, the Paranoia rulebook has now been superceeded by the new edition? And there are plans to redo the Glorantha book, redo the magic system, so that Magic in Glorantha will be obsolete? As well as Cults I & II? The screen? Players Guide To Gllorantha? Guilds, Factions & Cults? The RQ Spellbook? Legendary Heroes? GMs Handbook? The Deluxe version? All the Elric and Hawkmoon crunch books?

Thats a fair bit of obsolesence in the span of 18 months for me. Quite a bit.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Oh, and two editions of Slaine I forgot about and five supplements!

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Er, Arms & Equipment also

Probably Monster books as well

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Im not bitter, but you can see my point, right?

 

[MongooseMatt]

However, the Paranoia rulebook has now been superceeded by the new edition? And there are plans to redo the Glorantha book, redo the magic system, so that Magic in Glorantha will be obsolete? As well as Cults I & II? The screen? Players Guide To Gllorantha? Guilds, Factions & Cults? The RQ Spellbook? Legendary Heroes? GMs Handbook? The Deluxe version? All the Elric and Hawkmoon crunch books?

_If_ you are the kind of player (like me ) that has to have the latest edition of everything, then yes. However, every Paranoia book we released is compatible with the new range. With RQ, you can use all the books you listed with the new edition - there are elements of the new edition that do replace the older books, sure, but it is up to you which version you use. For example, if you have the new RQII core book, the Glorantha sourcebook and Player's Guide to Glorantha supplement are just as valid with little, if any, tweaking as the new editions we'll do. They can be used pretty much as is.

Of course, we think the new editions are better and that people should upgrade for the full 'Glorantha Experience' (!), but there is no requirement that you do so on a _rules_ front. And Elric and Hawkmoon are stand alone games - you can carry on with them quite merrily for years, if you wish.

Naturally, though, we'll try to tempt you with the new ones but it is not our place (or position) to ruthlessly invalidate your entire collection. Play with what you think will be the best for your group.