Character Mustering Out Benefits Tech Level

[Franbo]

Riddle me this...

What approach do you take to picking a Tech Level for items (e.g. Weapons, Armour etc.) that Characters receive as part of their mustering out benefits?

With "Imperial" clareers (e.g. Navy, Marines etc.) my instinct is to go with the Imperium average Tech Level (makes a note to look up what this is) unless the player can make a good case for higher (e.g. A Research Scientist might have access to higher. TL stuff etc.).

With "Non-Imperial" my instinct is to start looking at TLs around their home planet and guess something from there.

Anyone out there have an opinion?

Franbo

 

[Balfuset790]

As with what you said above I tend to go with Imperial Average if the career would take them travelling beyond their home system extensively: Navy, Imperial Agent, Scout and so on... I think that average is TL13 but I'll need to check that.

Otherwise I dictate the mustering out benefits come at the TL of their homeworld or, if easily definable, the TL of the world on which they served those terms of service.

 

[sideranautae]

Riddle me this...

What approach do you take to picking a Tech Level for items (e.g. Weapons, Armour etc.) that Characters receive as part of their mustering out benefits?

With "Imperial" clareers (e.g. Navy, Marines etc.) my instinct is to go with the Imperium average Tech Level (makes a note to look up what this is) unless the player can make a good case for higher (e.g. A Research Scientist might have access to higher. TL stuff etc.).

With "Non-Imperial" my instinct is to start looking at TLs around their home planet and guess something from there.

Anyone out there have an opinion?

Franbo

Depends on what the item is. Let' use an example. What are the TL's of item our USMC use that a Marine might leave with? My uncle took his M2 Carbine after Korea (a TL 5 item). We were TL 5 at the time. He might have taken his entrenching tool (TL 4)...

 

[DivineWrath]

I think that part of the problem is that every world is expected to part of the galactic economy (if possible), but not every world has the industrial ability to build high TL items. If it were an easy task to supply everyone with high TL goods, then it would be likely that most low TL worlds would race up the TL industrial ability quite quickly - as they would be able to acquire the high TL industrial gear needed to make such stuff.

The problem most likely is, there isn't enough high TL goods to go around, so the rich are the most likely to be able to afford the best goods (and would be able to afford to pay a premium to ensure that they get it). Everyone else has to make due with more common moderate TL goods (maybe TLs 10 to 12), with many worlds having to make due with even less. Even if you lived on a world that produces high TL stuff, it is likely that a lot of money would be spent by the rich to have the stuff sent to their worlds instead of remaining on the worlds that produced the stuff.

Anyways, I wouldn't mind if a character started out with higher TL gear, but I would expect the characters to pay for. I would most likely let them pay the difference between the lower TL item and the higher TL version they really wanted.

 

[sideranautae]

IEven if you lived on a world that produces high TL stuff, it is likely that a lot of money would be spent by the rich to have the stuff sent to their worlds instead of remaining on the worlds that produced the stuff.

Um, nope. That's like saying that most of the stuff made in the US, Germany & Japan is exported to the rich people in Africa and most people in those 3 countries don't buy them themselves. :lol:

 

[DivineWrath]

IEven if you lived on a world that produces high TL stuff, it is likely that a lot of money would be spent by the rich to have the stuff sent to their worlds instead of remaining on the worlds that produced the stuff.

Um, nope. That's like saying that most of the stuff made in the US, Germany & Japan is exported to the rich people in Africa and most people in those 3 countries don't buy them themselves. :lol:

Maybe I made an error, but you are also assuming that modern day earth is an accurate model of the Imperium. Why couldn't things resemble how things were a few centuries ago when mighty nations tried to create empires and found colonies to produce spices, coffee, and other goods that rich nations consumed but the colonies did not consume much of themselves. Why couldn't the Imperium resemble the Britain Empire? At least I think the colonies then produced most of their goods for export... I need to research this topic a bit more before I try to argue it further.

 

[sideranautae]

IEven if you lived on a world that produces high TL stuff, it is likely that a lot of money would be spent by the rich to have the stuff sent to their worlds instead of remaining on the worlds that produced the stuff.

Um, nope. That's like saying that most of the stuff made in the US, Germany & Japan is exported to the rich people in Africa and most people in those 3 countries don't buy them themselves. :lol:

Maybe I made an error, but you are also assuming that modern day earth is an accurate model of the Imperium.

I'm assuming macro econ still applies. Unless you can give a credible dissertation as to why it wouldn't...

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I let the players choose what their stuff is that they get, if it just says weapon or implant, etc.

 

[dragoner]

What approach do you take to picking a Tech Level for items (e.g. Weapons, Armour etc.) that Characters receive as part of their mustering out benefits?

Usually I will give the players what they want, within reason.

 

[DivineWrath]

I'm assuming macro econ still applies. Unless you can give a credible dissertation as to why it wouldn't...

I think I see the problem here... I'm trying to come up with reasons why the game would work as it does, while you are trying to use how the world works to say how the game should work. Am I right? Yes, no?

 

[sideranautae]

I'm assuming macro econ still applies. Unless you can give a credible dissertation as to why it wouldn't...

I think I see the problem here... I'm trying to come up with reasons why the game would work as it does,

No. The game doesn't work like you stated. People on high tech worlds can and DO purchase those goods created there and they aren't all shipped off to to low TL worlds and thus made unavailable.

Try again.

 

[DivineWrath]

No. The game doesn't work like you stated. People on high tech worlds can and DO purchase those goods created there and they aren't all shipped off to to low TL worlds and thus made unavailable.

Try again.

No. Thats not what I was saying... or trying to say. The game states that when mustering out that you can get gear, but often it is the lowest TL version possible. I'm trying to justify why characters might have lower TL gear even if high TL versions are available, even if they are from a high TL world. The point of this thread is about getting higher TL stuff instead of lower TL stuff...

What ever... I'm losing interest in this thread trying to argue this...

 

[Franbo]

Some interesting points there, but to bring the thread back to topic here's a concrete example... one of the characters follows the Marine career, and receives the mustering out benefit of armour.

In this instance I think the character's home world TL is pretty much irrelevant.

It's likely to be Combat Armour, but here lies the rub, using the central supply catalogue this could range from TL 11 to TL 14, and varies from 12-16 protection. This makes a big difference both in effectiveness (those extra 4 points can determine whether weapons bounce or are a threat) and value (400,000 cr difference).

I am certain there are more extreme examples out there.

From a narrative perspective I can justify either extreme (and everything in between), although my instincts from a balance perspective incline me towards the low end of the spectrum...

 

[sideranautae]

Some interesting points there, but to bring the thread back to topic here's a concrete example... one of the characters follows the Marine career, and receives the mustering out benefit of armour.

In this instance I think the character's home world TL is pretty much irrelevant.

Quite correct if the PC is in the Imperial Marines.

It's likely to be Combat Armour, but here lies the rub, using the central supply catalogue this could range from TL 11 to TL 14, and varies from 12-16 protection. This makes a big difference both in effectiveness (those extra 4 points can determine whether weapons bounce or are a threat) and value (400,000 cr difference).

If the PC was recently involved in major combat then he was a front lines guy. Give him the latest and greatest. Active reserve Marines, and those who haven't seen combat for quite some time, probably have the lower TL stuff. Highest TL stuff would be in the hands of those that are being thrown into combat.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Some interesting points there, but to bring the thread back to topic here's a concrete example... one of the characters follows the Marine career, and receives the mustering out benefit of armour.

In this instance I think the character's home world TL is pretty much irrelevant.

Quite correct if the PC is in the Imperial Marines.

It's likely to be Combat Armour, but here lies the rub, using the central supply catalogue this could range from TL 11 to TL 14, and varies from 12-16 protection. This makes a big difference both in effectiveness (those extra 4 points can determine whether weapons bounce or are a threat) and value (400,000 cr difference).

If the PC was recently involved in major combat then he was a front lines guy. Give him the latest and greatest. Active reserve Marines, and those who haven't seen combat for quite some time, probably have the lower TL stuff. Highest TL stuff would be in the hands of those that are being thrown into combat.

I limit the TL because the rate these items are handed out via mustering is way too high for me to believe the military is just letting their valuable top gear out the door. They are getting gear that is either outdated or defective in some way.

At least that's how I look at it.

 

[sideranautae]

I limit the TL because the rate these items are handed out via mustering is way too high for me to believe the military is just letting their valuable top gear out the door. They are getting gear that is either outdated or defective in some way.

At least that's how I look at it.

If I looked at it that way I would do the same as you. Without a moment of hesitation.

I look at weapon & armor mustering out "benefits" as something else. The PC knows the senior non-comm in S-4 and gets the piece of equip marked as "destroyed" and walks out with it when he musters out. Much like the 2 people I know who walked away with "high tech" automatic weapons when they left the service...

 

[dragoner]

From a narrative perspective I can justify either extreme (and everything in between), although my instincts from a balance perspective incline me towards the low end of the spectrum...

Give him top end, then watch as he can't wear it on anything LL 1+

Military armour (such as combat
armour and, of course, battle dress) is generally prohibited anywhere there
is law (law level 1+) other than for combat troops, mercs and
the like who have a legitimate reason for wearing it. The fact a merc
unit is on combat duty 200km away is not normally considered an
acceptable reason for wearing armour on a weekend pass into the
capital’s night spots.
CSC

 

[Franbo]

Give him top end, then watch as he can't wear it on anything LL 1+

Definitely, there's going to be all kinds of fun with local restrictions before the campaign is done :evil: ... I forsee some fun role-playing as they try and convince the locals of the validity of the Cat 4 Imperial Permit even though the local law frowns upon it 8) ... don't underestimate the value of an Imperial Honour Permit in the hands of creative players!

That said; the player doesn't know the traveller system, and wouldn't particularly be pushing for anything in particular, whatever I tell them they'll be happy, so it's not that kind of wheedling/confrontational vibe.

I'm just curious what other people think of the broader issue.

 

[Franbo]

If the PC was recently involved in major combat then he was a front lines guy. Give him the latest and greatest. Active reserve Marines, and those who haven't seen combat for quite some time, probably have the lower TL stuff. Highest TL stuff would be in the hands of those that are being thrown into combat.

I like the reasoning, in this instance the player is indeed a Marine, but actually mostly a mechanic/engineer so a variant of that reasoning works quite nicely (not that I'll need to justify my call, but I can use that to add some nice colour to the PC's background).

 

[dragoner]

Give him top end, then watch as he can't wear it on anything LL 1+

Definitely, there's going to be all kinds of fun with local restrictions before the campaign is done :evil: ... I forsee some fun role-playing as they try and convince the locals of the validity of the Cat 4 Imperial Permit even though the local law frowns upon it 8) ... don't underestimate the value of an Imperial Honour Permit in the hands of creative players!

That said; the player doesn't know the traveller system, and wouldn't particularly be pushing for anything in particular, whatever I tell them they'll be happy, so it's not that kind of wheedling/confrontational vibe.

I'm just curious what other people think of the broader issue.

I might let them wear it in lieu of a vacc suit, but at the same time, a suit of combat armor is fairly valuable; thieves will steal it, and expensive to repair if damaged.