Character advancement???

[Omega Man]

Ditto. Int + Edu as a skill cap seems very artificial and arbitrary to me, although I understand why some people like the idea.

It is wonderfully simple, and prevents characters from being "Too skilled"

As I mentioned, I can understand why some people like it. Personally, though, if I did decide to institute a skill cap, it would be a fixed value, rather than tied to characteristic values. There's also the fact that, assuming you count skill-0 as half a rank, I'm pretty sure that a few of the PCs in my group don't fit under the Int + Edu cap, right out of the blocks.

Well, if it helps any, MGT counts skill-0 as 0 ranks when calculating the time needed to learn a new skill or skill rank, so that could easily mean that skill-0 should be uncounted in any skill cap. Meaning your PCs are likely to have plenty of room to grow.

 

[SSWarlock]

It is wonderfully simple, and prevents characters from being "Too skilled"

I never did understand the need for this limitation. Having highly skilled PCs merely reduced the need for me as a GM to provide NPCs. And made PCs more enjoyable to play.

 

[-Daniel-]

It is wonderfully simple, and prevents characters from being "Too skilled"

I never did understand the need for this limitation. Having highly skilled PCs merely reduced the need for me as a GM to provide NPCs. And made PCs more enjoyable to play.

The only reason I have ever tried to limit what a character can do is to help keep the group all involved. If I end up with a character who can do everything then the player could become the focus too often and the other players may withdraw thus impacting the group dynamic.

By limiting the grand total the player has to select either to focus on a couple of skills and become the group go to guy on those skills or risk being a literal “Jack of all trades, Master of none”. My experience is they almost always select to master a couple of skills.

Other then that, I agree, there is no real reason to limit the skills.

Daniel

 

[Xoph]

In MTU I am going with the skill training system from the core Mongoose Traveller book. I added a tracking box to the excel character sheet I'm working on so PCs can track how many weeks they've trained. I have also added a bonus one week training for the skill the player uses most each session and will probably give out training weeks as rewards for big wins at the end of adventures or for pulling off super cool acts of daring do. This system was inspired by the old Dr Who RPG.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Nice idea! I like using bonus weeks as a reward system.

Regarding skill level caps, what do we do about the Anagathic characters that are 100+ years old (and you know there will be some, even if only NPCs). Does that skill limit still work and HOW.

Humans use only about 10% of their brain power. If higher TLs allowed the addition of even just a couple more percent, that would represent a signifcant amount of additional learning possible.

 

[SableWyvern]

Humans use only about 10% of their brain power.

Not that long ago, I was mildly embarassed to discover that:

1. That particular belief was debunked a long time ago.
2. It was never taken all that seriously by the scientific/medical community in the first place.

Aparently the origins of the 10% myth stem from an upswing in popular ideas about the possible of existence of psychic abilities (late 1800s, early 1900s, I believe).

 

[-Daniel-]

Humans use only about 10% of their brain power.

Not that long ago, I was mildly embarassed to discover that:

1. That particular belief was debunked a long time ago.
2. It was never taken all that seriously by the scientific/medical community in the first place.

Aparently the origins of the 10% myth stem from an upswing in popular ideas about the possible of existence of psychic abilities (late 1800s, early 1900s, I believe).

I was not going to say anything, but yes it is just a myth. The funny thing is how many folks will fight with you because they want to believe it. I think it is part of human nature to want to be something more.

Daniel

 

[SableWyvern]

I was not going to say anything, but yes it is just a myth. The funny thing is how many folks will fight with you because they want to believe it. I think it is part of human nature to want to be something more.

Daniel

I can understand people reluctant to change their opinion on this one though -- the myth is incredibly pervasive, and I was 32 before I ever heard anyone argue against it.

 

[Xoph]

I was worried about the lack of Characteristic advancement too. Then I realized that the player could train up athletics to basically upgrade any of their physical characteristics. This doesn't help combat, but Melee skill already does that.

 

[Jame Rowe]

And I don't. In my house rules there's NO max skill level limit.

Ditto. Int + Edu as a skill cap seems very artificial and arbitrary to me, although I understand why some people like the idea.

It is wonderfully simple, and prevents characters from being "Too skilled"

Actually, I think there might be some enjoyment from playing a character who's renowned for having one or two skills at high levels.

 

[AKAramis]

Ditto. Int + Edu as a skill cap seems very artificial and arbitrary to me, although I understand why some people like the idea.

It is wonderfully simple, and prevents characters from being "Too skilled"

Actually, I think there might be some enjoyment from playing a character who's renowned for having one or two skills at high levels.

There is... but it turns in to a straightjacket, as well...

 

[Matrix Cypher]

It is wonderfully simple, and prevents characters from being "Too skilled"

Actually, I think there might be some enjoyment from playing a character who's renowned for having one or two skills at high levels.

There is... but it turns in to a straightjacket, as well...

Actually in my MegaTraveller game we do use the Int+Edu. 0 level skills do not count. The reason being at least to us is kinda like real life. You can learn allot and know allot, but if you don't keep using it you will get rusty. Level 0 skill is allot like in Mongoose Traveller. Its the learned knowledge. And levels to some degree are the experience. Depending on how smart and educated you are equates to how much experience you retain in memory. For instance when I was 16, I was a wiz on a bike(say skill level 3), now that I'm 47 and have not rid since then, when I got back on a bike I remembered how to ride (skill level 0), but man was I rusty and definitely was not going to try and do any stunts. Now my leveled skills are different. If I were to switch careers and say become a doctor, I'm sure that I would remember how to do what I do now , but the longer I did not practice them and instead practice the Medic skill the old skills may drop and the med skills would raise. (considering that I may be maxed out in the number of skill levels is at my max of int +edu)

So in effect we consider the int+edu as a rule to cover used and unused skill control. You can really only be good at a several skills at one time. As its hard to maintain a hight level of practice and training in allot of skills.

 

[-Daniel-]

One of the problems I have with trying to make Traveller match "Real Life" is that the model they use for skills changes from skill to skill.

Some skills seem to point at a whole profession by them selves. Say Medical for example where we all seem to thing a person only needs Med-3 and they are a doctor. They could have only that one skill and that is it.

The problem is when you then look at other skills and they do not have that same "all encompassing" aspect. For example there is not a skill called "Infantryman". Rather there is Gun Combat, Recon, Tactics, Heavy Weapons, Comm, etc.

We use the rational for limiting the skills that someone could not be a Doctor and a Lawyer and ..... but not all the Traveller skills equate to a real life career on a one to one basis. So if I am a great Merc I may have level 1 or 2 or 3 in a dozen skills. If I wan to be a great Doctor I may need only have 3 or 4 levels in a single skill. Different problems and different models.

So in my game I do not have a house rule for limits and rather I ask the players to explain how the various skills fit into an over-all picture. This often stops the merc from also having Med-3 for example.

Just a few thoughts.

Daniel

 

[SSWarlock]

One of the problems I have with trying to make Traveller match "Real Life" is that the model they use for skills changes from skill to skill.

And two of the problems I have with trying to make Traveller match "Real Life" is 1) it can't and 2) I don't want Real Life intruding on my fun time.

 

[-Daniel-]

One of the problems I have with trying to make Traveller match "Real Life" is that the model they use for skills changes from skill to skill.

And two of the problems I have with trying to make Traveller match "Real Life" is 1) it can't and 2) I don't want Real Life intruding on my fun time.

:lol:

I agree.

Daniel

 

[area_51_games2]

some day if some one want to write a no selling rpg called real life
I am sure they well use the skill cap ideal! :twisted:

But to be honest I think Gary Gygax once tried it- its call dangerous Journey


twelve scrapes sheet of note book paper later I had a character!

Folks
I like the core rules they are fine, MHO, I think there are more pressing thing to worry about these days then rather a game is realistic or not!
but I must say you all are doing a fine job at pointing this out!
>>> but with all the great sci fi artist out thier why the books art is so mediocre is kind of sad >>>>> so if MTC worth expelled and spent this late at nite - I wish you all well.
and please do not take this to seriously as I FIGURE MOST HAVE NOT, nor worry to much what I have said, heck I well be dead in twenty to fifty years so its not like its important, "drink last of pint and goes to sleep"

 

[-Daniel-]

Folks
I like the core rules they are fine, MHO, I think there are more pressing thing to worry about these days then rather a game is realistic or not!

I think it is less worry as it is some folks love the mental game and debate they find when they pick apart each and every rule or aspect of a game. :wink:

Daniel

 

[Kautsu]

My 5 cents for the suggested system:

5 hours a week for training a skill is quite low, but the system suggested semes to work quite nicely if you assume you have total of 8 hours of efficient training time. But, the system is still too fast for young characters.

I use the notorious example of a character Wesley Crusher who has served one term at navy. He has learned Engineer to 1 - nothing else.
Thus he has STT of 1. With that it takes him 5 months to learn Engineering +2. It takes him further 8 months to learn Engineering +3. The Engineering +4 would require further 11 months. +5 would require further 14 months. This is total of 36 months. Way better than the publicshed system, but still too fast. This is the reason why I do think the training time should not be function of current skill total at all. My suggestion would be simple: 1 xp every 6 months and using the twice the next level as required experience (2 x new level) as threshold. And I would allow 1 training and 1 practice (and practice should be some skill you use for your "job").

How to handle instructions? the scale of few days if scale of learning is weeks sounds fine. Other option would allow more time wasted before training fails. If the scale is 6 months per XP, I would suggest Instruction modifies it in days equal to amount it would give benefit when instructor would "assist" the character. If he is really lousy in that instruction, it may cause more time required. (the formula would be 6 months + DM modifier of Instruction check).

The system had good ideas (like how to handle skill level +0 and so forth).

For most of people out there - a realistic charcter develoment should take lots of time. The gaming should be how the characters survives encounters and stories, not how much experience they earn. If you want statistical character advancement, D&D and MMORPGs are for you. Why bother with tabletop RPGs?

Reason why I do think the character advancemetn is too fast is simple - it breaks the logic of skill descriptions elsewhere in the book. And Traveller should be game ruled by logic. If the original idea was in months rather than weeks, the training times starts to make sense, but are still too fast.

I myself would break the correlation of total skill levels from training time. It is just certain amount of time to train from one level to another. Okay, the skill total affecting the time is realistic, but ... it's a bit too complex.

 

[Kautsu]

My formula was incomplete:

It is 6 montsh - DM modifier days. Thus +2 DM (good thing) modifier reduces the time by 2 days. Okay.. It could be even reduction in weeks with that system.

Waiting for comments.

Yours Kautsu

 

[MrUkpyr]

It is wonderfully simple, and prevents characters from being "Too skilled"

Actually, I think there might be some enjoyment from playing a character who's renowned for having one or two skills at high levels.

There is... but it turns in to a straightjacket, as well...

I have a Gunner on the ship my PCs have. He has Gunner 6, and no other skill above 1.

He's very very good at what he does best, but is almost a liability when he needs to do something else. Which really is what you would expect.