changes to BRP system?

atgxtg said:
Dodge can't be considered an RQ core ability, since it didn't exist prior to RQ3. RQ2 had a Defense ability that reduced your chance of being hit.

Maybe if Defense is reintroduced, in some format, that would take away some of the issues with the -40% for bypassing armor. This just occured to me. I can still see the argument for Dodge being core though. While it was mechanically different from Defense, it was supposed to be covering the same type of ability.

Probably the only RQ/BRP spinoff that was RuneQuest underneath waould have been ElfQuest. With the execption of the setting and very high starting skill pecentages, the system was RQIII.

Well, every variant of BRP has RQ underneath it, but I understand what you mean. Most of them are simplified (early Stormbringer), and the newer games (CoC and newer Stormbringer) have really moved away from RQ with simplification rules. Btw, I'd throw the Ringworld rules in there too. They're pretty RQ-y, and have a nifty SR system that carries over round-to-round: more of an AP point system really.

No skill checks

Do we know this for certain or are we just assuming it from the character sheet?
 
Enpeze's list was probably more "core BRP" than "core RQ", to be honest. It's difficult in my mind to seperate RQ from Glorantha, as it's such an excellent example of system and setting working together to enhance each other. So I'd identify Glorantha as my number one core RQ component.

Lack of levels, and especially lack of HP increases, is the really big one for me. The first game I ever played was D&D, almost 25 years ago, and even then I could never understand the rationale behind such colossal HP increases. A point or two was something I could have accepted, through general toughening of the body with experience, but being able to double your HP going from Level 1 to Level 2 was stupid.

Everybody knowing magic was another, and was one of the things that made RQ seem unique when I first encountered it in old White Dwarf scenarios. Factor in no classes (which I seriously didn't believe was even possible for a good while), and I'd stare at those stats with a mixture of awe and bewilderment, and just want to play that game. Add in Chaotic Features, percentile skills, Broos and Gorp, 1d10 + 1 + 1d4 damage, and a slightly off-beat vibe to the whole thing, and you've pretty much summed up what's at the heart of RQ for me. That's never diminished over the years, and if MRQ can retain that feeling, I'll be happy.
 
It looks like we will all have a slightly different variation on what RuneQuest is or is not. So my list.

Percentage skill system. This is absolute.
No levels or classes.
STR, CON, DEX, SIZ, POW, INT, APP/CHA (CHA was a part of RQI/II, so replacing APP with CHA is okay)
Hit Points based on stats (Con and Siz)
Hit Locations. To me it is not RQ without hit locations. Damage to a specific location is definitely one of the things that define RQ.
Active combat, not necessarily fast-paced, but something that allowed for active attacks and defenses (attacks, parries, dodges, etc.). Our RQ combats could take a long time to play out.
Skill increases based on skill usage. If you practiced it you got better. You didn’t just gain abilities because you killed stuff.
Spirit magic, divine magic and sorcery. Everyone uses magic in RQ, and the powerful stuff came from the gods. I included sorcery because, though it was flawed, it was an awesome concept and made sorcerers (wizards) stand out from everyone else. The sheer flexibility was unheard of at that time.
Bronze age. All the other games out there play around in the medieval period. RQ always had a more Mesopotamia/Byzantium feel.

So far I think MRQ fulfills most of the requirements that people are listing. Hopefully it will continue to do so as more is revealed.
 
From reading this, I'm guessing you're familiar with RQIII and not RQII, so I'll comment as such. Sorry if that's incorrect.

I still have my old RQII rulebook, but I haven't played that in absolute ages, so it's definately not fresh in my mind. :)

I mentioned elsewhere that you could drop the d20 resolution mechanic straight in and everything else would still work like RQ. All IMO of course.

I agree it could work just as well with a d20 mechanic as opposed to a d100, but I think that fact that it did use d100 was what made it "RQ."

Also, CHA determined functions of followers, magic crystals/spirits tied to the character, etc. It also went up and down with successful or failed ventures.

Well, that's just a general pet peeve of mine -- I don't see any reason to have personality traits -- such as a chracter's charisma -- defined as a stat. Things like followers, etc. should be tied to the character's actions in the game, not some abstract number. Some stuff, like crystals/spirits, seem to be a better candidate for being linked to POW (as a representative of the "magical aptitude" or "connectedness" a certain individual has). Heck, I could even live with INT being removed, although it's a bit too integral in a few things to do that easily. :)

So far I think MRQ fulfills most of the requirements that people are listing. Hopefully it will continue to do so as more is revealed.

Yah, I would consider MRQ, based on what we've seen, to be "RQ-ish," but by no means a linear descendant of the RQ system.

Not a big fan of the combining of attack and parry into one skill, though. of all the changes, that really grates.
 
Gbaji - Enpeze's list was probably more "core BRP" than "core RQ", to be honest. It's difficult in my mind to seperate RQ from Glorantha, as it's such an excellent example of system and setting working together to enhance each other. So I'd identify Glorantha as my number one core RQ component.

Thats maybe right. It comes from the fact that I prefer to play a "light" version of the RQ rules with some replacement rules from CoC. And I was never that deep in Glorantha for myself (actually I played just 2 or 3 adventures in it in the last 20 years). So I forgot to list it. Sorry.

A question is: If MRQ material is released without relationship to Glorantha, is it RQ anymore? (there are some other settings in the pipeline as everybody know) For me, definetely yes. How about you?
 
Enpeze said:
Thats maybe right. It comes from the fact that I prefer to play a "light" version of the RQ rules with some replacement rules from CoC. And I was never that deep in Glorantha for myself (actually I played just 2 or 3 adventures in it in the last 20 years). So I forgot to list it. Sorry.

That explains a lot about your viewpoint in a differenet thread. CoC plays a lot differently that any other RQ/BRP game. In CoC time spent rolling weapon attacks against Mythos creatures is better spent rolling up new character stats. :)


Enpeze said:
A question is: If MRQ material is released without relationship to Glorantha, is it RQ anymore? (there are some other settings in the pipeline as everybody know) For me, definetely yes. How about you?

Deifnate maybe. It all depends on if MRQ is still RQ.

Chaosium did produce non-Gloranthan RQ products (RuneQuest/Gateway line) and even permitted 3rd party RQ/Gateway stuff. Questworld was one of the last RQ2 products released by Chaosium (piror to the AH/RQIII deal). Questworld was a new (not GLorantha) world that was going to be an "open" setting that could be fleshed out according to the ideas and suggestions from the players and writers. Essentially I gave CVhaosium a setting that wasn't premade and controlled by Greg Stafford, so other peole could write stuff for it.

So yeah, if MRQ proves to be a true RQ game, then it will be RQ even without Glorantha.

THe Glorantha fans, myself included, will be satistied as long as there is Gloranthan RQ stuff too. Just as long as we don't get reprints of RQ stuff for the first ten years, again. 8)
 
atgxtg said:
THe Glorantha fans, myself included, will be satistied as long as there is Gloranthan RQ stuff too. Just as long as we don't get reprints of RQ stuff for the first ten years, again. 8)

Give me one more Kygor Litor writeup! :)
 
SteveMND said:
Well, that's just a general pet peeve of mine -- I don't see any reason to have personality traits -- such as a chracter's charisma -- defined as a stat. Things like followers, etc. should be tied to the character's actions in the game, not some abstract number. Some stuff, like crystals/spirits, seem to be a better candidate for being linked to POW (as a representative of the "magical aptitude" or "connectedness" a certain individual has). Heck, I could even live with INT being removed, although it's a bit too integral in a few things to do that easily. :)

To me, CHA isn't any more of a personality stat than POW. CHA, as I mentioned it, is directly affected by the characters actions in the game. That's the part I liked about it: if your character did well, then the stat adjusted to show that.

Note: I'm not such a big fan of CHA as I am an opponent of a throwaway stat like APP. When RQ had CHA it at least was important and not a throwaway, like in most games.
 
SteveMND said:
I mentioned elsewhere that you could drop the d20 resolution mechanic straight in and everything else would still work like RQ. All IMO of course.

I agree it could work just as well with a d20 mechanic as opposed to a d100, but I think that fact that it did use d100 was what made it "RQ."

You could probably drop in a d20 mechanic by dividing everything by 5 and running things the same way, but so what. It's the same thing except for the kind of dice you roll. However, this should not be confused with dropping in a D20 mechanic, where you add your skill to the roll and try to beat an imaginary moving target established by someone else. What I liked about the D% system was that you rolled under your own ability to determine your result and could thus shout out an emphatic "Made it!" or "Aaaarrgghhh!" without having to consult someone about whether you succeeded or not. I found that this contributed significantly to the narrative of the game. True, there might be modifiers to the D% roll, but in my games at least they were stated up front before the roll was made.



Yah, I would consider MRQ, based on what we've seen, to be "RQ-ish," but by no means a linear descendant of the RQ system.

Not a big fan of the combining of attack and parry into one skill, though. of all the changes, that really grates.


I agree pretty closely with Steve on this (and most) points. My thoughts on what made RQ what is was are as follows:

1. Siz and Pow as stats are distinct. I always saw Cha and App as being different names for the same things, and Str, Dex, Con, and Int are ubiquitous to roleplaying in general.
2. Hit locations
3. Strike Ranks, dependant on your dex, reach, and weapon selection. Also that these were based on actual fragments of time, rather than simply the order of players/oponents
4. Magic, especially spirit magic, and it's availability to all
5. Armour as something that prevented damage, but didn't prevent being hit.
6. The ability to defend yourself from attack by parry or dodge. This made combat so much more interesting because you could still act during an oponents turn to defend yourself from specific harmful attacks - players felt they had more of a stake in what was happening during combat.
7. Criticals and fumbles, which added to the variability of combat and also to the combat narrative. I refer back to my combat narrative in an old post wherein a broo raider defended himself with Steve's severed arm after dropping his shield in a fumble. Let's face it, this just didn't happen as easily in other games.
8. Skills and their advancement through usage.
9. No classes, no xp, no levels, and no ALIGNMENT - all of which seemed like artificial constructs to me in my early D&D (and Paladium) days.
10. Gods that players could relate to and could find information on how to worship instead of stats on how to kill.

I do not specifically associate RQ with Glorantha, so Glorantha does not become a part of the definition of RQ for me. However, I do accept some of what most consider to be 'Gloranthan' qualities (ie. magic, treatment of gods, etc.) as being part of RQ. I still used these things, but not in a Gloranthan context.

I also do not really equate RQ with other so-called BRP derivatives. In my mind, RQ came first, BRP was derived from it, and all other so-called BRP derivatives came from that. I see BRP derived games as being related to RQ, but not necessarily that closely. This is why I'm glad this forum has adopted the monicker 'MRQ' - a cousin but not a direct descendant of RQ.

Cobra
 
RMS said:
atgxtg said:
THe Glorantha fans, myself included, will be satistied as long as there is Gloranthan RQ stuff too. Just as long as we don't get reprints of RQ stuff for the first ten years, again. 8)

Give me one more Kygor Litor writeup! :)

:D Ha! :D A statment only a RQer could make. :D I think we have seen more Kigor Litor cult writeups in RQ than we've seen dedicated (discounting the automatic troll initiatiion and focusing on those characters who have porgressed in the cult) Kygor Litor worshippers.

Funny considering that it is a cult that 95% of PC coulnd't really join.
 
SteveMND said:
Well, that's just a general pet peeve of mine -- I don't see any reason to have personality traits -- such as a chracter's charisma -- defined as a stat. Things like followers, etc. should be tied to the character's actions in the game, not some abstract number. Some stuff, like crystals/spirits, seem to be a better candidate for being linked to POW (as a representative of the "magical aptitude" or "connectedness" a certain individual has). Heck, I could even live with INT being removed, although it's a bit too integral in a few things to do that easily. :)

I've seen some games that do remove psersonailty and mental stats from the mix. THe only thing is, it sort of removes part of the escapist fun of a RPG. THe average gamer is, well, average. Most are not brillaint or possess a great degree of charm. So having those abilities repsented in the game allows people to play something that they are not. On a similar note, I've met a lot of gamers over the years, and haven't met many with prodigious Strength, but I think we all have played a "muscle-bound warrior" at one point or another in out gaming careers. Why not be able to play brilliant wizards, scientists, con men and politicans?
 
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