Capital Ship Battles

[Nerhesi]

How are you applying armour? You're multiplying rather than adding the two percentages?

So if an 8 is rolled to hit, are you calculating damage as 60% - 45% (15 armour). Resulting in 15% damage of the base damage?

Or are you treating an 8 as 60% multiplied by the base damage, then the remaining is multiplied by 45%?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Or are you treating an 8 as 60% multiplied by the base damage, then the remaining is multiplied by 45%?

This.

From an earlier example:
Fire at a BB:
Barbette: 2D +7[basic] +2[small vs ship] -7[targets basic defence] = 2D + 2 ≈ 9 => 80%
Barbette: 3100 * 80% ≈ 2480, minus armour is 2480 * 55% = 1364 damage killing ~15,5% of the BB every round.

 

[Nerhesi]

So that wasn't actually my intent - it was intended to be additive - and I believe that is what Matt intended as well.

This is inline with how damage was calculated, so that way damage is piddly/non-existent if you're barely hitting a high armour ship. Can I trouble you to calculate in that manner? (That means any hit below 45% hitting a 15 armour ship does 0 damage)

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I think you failed to convey that clearly. I certainly misunderstood.

Let's try to redo the 1550 expensive fighter vs a single BB again. I have to start from scratch:

Fire at a BB:
Barbette: 2D +7[basic] +2[small vs ship] -7[targets basic defence] = 2D + 2 ≈ 9 => 80%
Barbette: 3100 * ( 80%[hit] - 45%[armour] ) = 3100 * 35% ≈ 1085 damage killing ~12,3% of the BB every round.

BB fire at fighters:
ToHit (Close Range): Basic attack: +2[crew] + 3[FireControl] + 2[TL] = +7.

Spinal: Can't attack fighters (<2000dT).
Large bay: 2D +7[basic] +1[accurate] -6[targets basic defence] - 2[small] = 2D + 0 ≈ 7 => 50%
Medium Bay: 2D +7[basic] -6[targets basic defence] - 2[small] = 2D - 1 ≈ 6 => 35%
Small Bay: 2D +7[basic] -6[targets basic defence] - 2[small] = 2D - 1 ≈ 6 => 35%
Barbette: 2D +7[basic] -6[targets basic defence] = 2D + 1 ≈ 8 => 60%
Turret: 2D +7[basic] +1[accurate] -6[targets basic defence] = 2D + 2 ≈ 9 => 80%

Damage:
Large Bay: 42 * (50% - 45%) ≈ 2
Medium Bay: 620 * (35% - 45%) ≈ 0
Small Bay: 620 * (35% - 45%) ≈ 0
Barbette: 580 * (60% - 45%) ≈ 87
Turret: 882 * (80% - 45%) ≈ 309
2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 87 + 309 = 398 Damage killing ~18,3% of the fighters. BB win.

This makes no sense whatsoever, none of the BB's weapons have any trouble penetrating armour. If they hit they will penetrate and do damage, e.g. the medium bays are ortillery doing 2DD ≈ 70 damage, Armour 15 is hardly noticed, yet now they are completely stopped by that same armour.

 

[Nerhesi]

Yeah I think you've failed to identify that the purpose is not to simply translate the same result (low end) on a larger scale. That would be the hybrid system.

We need to identify the results of the fleet combat system on their own. The attack roll is an abstract roll - it isn't just oh I've hit you with a large bay I must do damage.

Now let's analyze the actual system, and feel free to try it multiplicative or additive. Then feel free to propose modifications to the values and their intended effect, side effect and so on - all for consideration by Matt

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Yeah I think you've failed to identify that the purpose is not to simply translate the same result (low end) on a larger scale.

Clearly.

 

[phavoc]

Remember, that snub fighters are too small and can evade turbolasers, err, I mean large bays. At 500 tons, it should be pretty damn easy to evade a slug like that.