Can a kai use mind over matter as an attack?

[mthomason]

Ok the whole ridiculous physics discussion aside, I only wanted an answer why it can't be used on living creatures, and why only objects.

I can't give an official reason, but I can give you a "that sounds like it'd explain it" one...

The presence of an active mind in the target generates a low-level psychic "interference" field, preventing the Discipline from "locking on" to living creatures.

 

[SableWyvern]

Actually, while I agree with your basic premise on the whole thing, there is still the force used to counteract gravity the whole time.Nerethel

Yeah, I purposefully ignored that, assumed a frictionless medium etc, for simplicity.

Ok the whole ridiculous physics discussion aside, I only wanted an answer why it can't be used on living creatures, and why only objects.

'Cause I the GM say so, and there's really no good way to refute my logic (plus, the source material backs me up by it's omission of any living creature use).

For a deeper answer, I'd go with mthomason's, but make it a little more mystical spiriual (ie, soul, rather than mind). In Rolemaster terms, this would be the target's Essence Aura interfering with the ability.

 

[Reginald de Curry]

You could give them a Will save to resist.

You could also grab them by their underwear, giving them an atomic wedgie before dropping them off a cliff.

 

[Winter Wolf]

Nice one! :lol:

Or you could undo his belt and force him to take a ref saving throw each turn or trip over his pants.

 

[simjimm]

Nice one! :lol:

Or you could undo his belt and force him to take a ref saving throw each turn or trip over his pants.

<sarcasm> Don't be silly, its a fantasy setting so all men clearly wear tights and tunics; not trousers! :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

I was suprised at how powerful Mind Over Matter was - the sheer weight of stuff that could be moved seemed unlike my experiences of the books. I don't remember moving anything that heavy, even with Grand Nexus, but then again, we all know Lone Wolf was a bit of a slacker...maybe when he learned Mind Over Matter he missed a few things?

At any rate, I don't think Mind Over Matter works like a force in physics. It's not a pushpull of x newtons in a line of sight type thing, at least not to my mind - it's more like a mystical assetion of the will over the inanimate, and I don't think that would work on a thinking living being.

Twanging a tree branch sounds about right, though...hehehe, down you go, Giak scum!

I don't think you could hurl anyone about by his belt, though, or even nudge him. I'm not sure why, but that just sounds wrong to me. I think if Mind over Matter could have done that, we would have known about it.

 

[Winter Wolf]

I was suprised at how powerful Mind Over Matter was - the sheer weight of stuff that could be moved seemed unlike my experiences of the books. I don't remember moving anything that heavy, even with Grand Nexus, but then again, we all know Lone Wolf was a bit of a slacker...maybe when he learned Mind Over Matter he missed a few things?

Here is an example of Lone Wolf moving something heavy. Granted he seems to struggle with it.

http://www.projectaon.org/xhtml/lw/07cd/sect255.htm

 

[Anonymous]

Here is an example of Lone Wolf moving something heavy. Granted he seems to struggle with it.

Wow, you really know your stuff!

 

[Winter Wolf]

Here is an example of Lone Wolf moving something heavy. Granted he seems to struggle with it.

Wow, you really know your stuff!

Nah I just happened to be reading Castle Death on my break. :lol:

 

[Nerethel]

While this is an impressive feat of Mind over Matter, I'm still unconvinced that Kai Lords could use the discipline as powerfully as described in the book. In this example (which I really didn't remember from reading before; thanks, Winter Wolf!), Lone Wolf manipulates the falling tree with effort, but does not actually lift it.

Also, to address the idea of manipulating other living beings with the discipline, I think it would be possible, but it seems that Mind over Matter takes some time and effort to use, and by the time a Kai Lord could fire it up to it's potential, the attacking giak/kraan/whatever would be upon him and slicing him up into little, tender, bite-sized morsels that go so well with basil and oregano.

In other words, while he could use the discipline to lift a giak, it would be much less effort to just kill the poor slob.

That's what I think, anyway.

Nerethel

 

[Stormcrow the White Wolf]

I just looked at the rules again and it says that Kai Lords learn to move only OBJECTS during their training, and further that objects are the only things that can be moved. A creature by D20 rules terms, is not an object unless the creature is dead. Therefore, you could levitate dead cows on people all day, but those who are unconscious still have the ability to actively resist your force manipulation. Now if you want to use the power on creatures, just follow the rules for the TK spell and give the target a Will save DC =the Kai's class leve plus his intelligence modfiier. He can't violent thrust anyone, but he can levitate them up and over. However, the easier method would be to use mind over matter to manipulate stuff on the person that has no physical restraint, like a knife or sword in a sheath that is not tied down. This also doesn't allow you rip weapons out of enemy hands, as they are physically restrained by the user. Now what would be really fun is using this ability during a siege backed up by some Dwarven Gunners of Bor. Hmn, tilting ladders anyone? Or pouring boiling pitch? Or even better, bang sticks?

 

[Reginald de Curry]

All the more reason to use the wedgie method I described. :lol:

 

[Winter Wolf]

Now what would be really fun is using this ability during a siege backed up by some Dwarven Gunners of Bor. Hmn, tilting ladders anyone? Or pouring boiling pitch? Or even better, bang sticks?

Can you imagine what Kai lords with Mind Over Matter would be like crewing sailing ships. For example you could control the wheel from the crows nest! :lol:

 

[FallingPhoenix]

You know, its too bad MoM won't work on the living (or undead, I imagine)...I always got the biggest kick out of Force Pushing people off cliffs in Jedi Academy...

 

[Smiling Fox]

As some of the previous spokers have said: IMHO Mind over Matter only works with dead matter. You just can't push someone with it.