Bypassing ships security, 3 runs, and over a railing @Zero-g

[runescience]

New to new traveller. HAvent played old traveller since 1980's

We have a new DM who isnt use to the feel of the game.

We landed on a mining station and found a ship locked up. We wanted to bypass the ships security and open the hatch.

DM said there was a number keypad on the door and we couldnt get thru it, because he said we locked up our ship and no one could get thru ours either.

What works for the players works for the world. Thats fair.

We are starting out as tech 9'ers. We found a ship thats tech 10 or 11.
So, how do we get thru the security? There is an action example in mongoose traveller that says it would take 6 seconds to make a bypass security roll. Its an example in either the minor or the significant list.

Next question. Running is a minor action. You get a minor, and a signficant action. You can trade in the Significant for 2 minors. So that means, by my empty logic that you get 3 minors all together. So can you do 3 runs (up to 6 squares each run)?


And lastly, in Zero G, or microgravity, how do you jump over a railing to get down to the ground level. The railing is 1 level up from floor. I have athletics/coord/+2. No Zero G skill. Whats the mechanic?

 

[rust]

The way we would handle it ...

So, how do we get thru the security?

This depends entirely on your referee's decisions, for example how he
sees the difficulty of the action to attempt to bypass the security system.

Running is a minor action. You get a minor, and a signficant action. You can trade in the Significant for 2 minors. So that means, by my empty logic that you get 3 minors all together. So can you do 3 runs (up to 6 squares each run)?

Yes, this is how we would handle this, allowing the character to move up
to 18 meters.

And lastly, in Zero G, or microgravity, how do you jump over a railing to get down to the ground level.

Frankly, not at all. An attempt to jump would carry the character either to
the ceiling or to the wall on the opposite side of the room. If he wants to
go down, and has no skill for movement in zero-g, the best way to do it
would be to push himself downwards from the railing, but very gently.
Again, the details would be a referee decision.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

 

[AndrewW]

Might want to take a look at Spacecraft Security (Mongoose Traveller Core Rulebook page: 143). Makes specific mention of bypassing locks.

 

[alex_greene]

And check out the Athletics and Zero-G skills while you're at it.

 

[nats]

The thing is with MTs way of combining skill, character and chain dms getting through any security will be just a matter of time. Eventually you will get through - not very realistic in my view. If a ship is locked it should require some impressive electronic / computer skills or a very big breaching charge to get through. Some things should just not be possible to the unskilled. Unless your characters are like James Bond and essentially have Jack of Trades level 5 so they can pretty much do anything they turn their hand to. This is the way CT deals with it and I tend to prefer that rule system myself.

Dont want the characters to start thinking they are omnipotent.

 

[DFW]

The thing is with MTs way of combining skill, character and chain dms getting through any security will be just a matter of time. Eventually you will get through - not very realistic in my view. If a ship is locked it should require some impressive electronic / computer skills or a very big breaching charge to get through.

I agree. The way I have it is, if you don't know the code, you have to cut through. Just like similar TL 7 systems.

 

[simonh]

Regarding security, the rules are fairly generous in this regard. I think it's fair enough that it should be feasible for a moderately skilled character to defeat standard security systems.

Even if your characters aren't particularly skilled at electronics, mechanics or computer systems there may be other ways to get into a ship in those circumstances. Look aroud to see if you can find a security key in a locker or vehicle nearby. Perhaps someone kept a security override password recorded on a hand computer that was foolishly left on and unsecured. These sorts of things do happen in the real world. If the GM does want it to be possible for the players to get in, there are plausible ways to allow it to happen. On the other hand if doing so would detract from the GM's vision of where the game is going then it would be equaly reasonable to effectively close off that avenue.

The problem is that for an inexperienced GM it often seems easier and 'more realistic' to say no to the players than to say yes. To dissallow things like this than to allow them. If the GM doesn't have a clear idea where to take the game, this can lead to functional paralysis as the players wallow arround in failure with nothing productive to do. I've done it myself many times, and seen GMs do it in games I've been a player in too.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

PSHAW

You can still get through without knowing the code, it just takes the right computer counter-security program and hardware.

Take the panel off of the keypad, locate the six or seven wires (they are all the same color of course, as are the 100 other wires inside the unit) and apply a small electrical signal to them in the right order.

Piece of cake.

What? No fancy computer intruder program: -4 DM
What? No relevent Computer or Security or Engineer (Electronics) skill: -3 DM
What? No fancy hardware: -4 DM
What? 2 TL difference: -4 DM

Oh, and it was a Formidable (-4DM) task to begin with....

Add it up boys.... that lock ain't going anywhere fast... BUT, if you extend the time you work on it from 6 seconds to 60 minutes... you get a DM.

Just hope starport security doesn't come buy while you are working...

Seriously, you might be able to get the info you need from Scoundrel, which has a section on computer Hacking.

 

[DFW]

PSHAW

You can still get through without knowing the code, it just takes the right computer counter-security program and hardware.

Take the panel off of the keypad, locate the six or seven wires (they are all the same color of course, as are the 100 other wires inside the unit) and apply a small electrical signal to them in the right order.

Piece of cake.

That could work if you had a REALLY crappy security system. The one in my IT Dept (TL 7) isn't even that lame.

 

[BP]

Welcome to the forum runescience!

As to your questions - the answers are fundamentally up to your referee. He ultimately makes the rules, the books are MgT's rules, not his, unless he makes them so. You'll have to gauge how open he is to you bringing up official rules and questioning interpretations. If you are agreeing to him as a Referee you are agreeing to play by his rules.

What works for the players works for the world. Thats fair.

Forget 'fair'. It's a game - it should be about fun. If you are worried about fair, you are not gonna have as much fun - roll with it

As a referee, I let my players try just about anything - in fact, I encourage it, skills or no. They just have to be prepared to accept the consequences. This is actually very fun, but bear in mind, it is much harder on a referee - especially when the PCs 'ruin' a well setup plan or succeed in moments overcoming a challenge the ref spent hours planning. I wouldn't expect an inexperienced ref to be able to handle this well.

And lastly, in Zero G, or microgravity, how do you jump over a railing to get down to the ground level. The railing is 1 level up from floor. I have athletics/coord/+2. No Zero G skill. Whats the mechanic?

You don't!

The official mechanic is found on page 59 of the Core rules book. Nominally a -2 DM for lack of Zero-G skill. As rust more or less pointed out, 'Jumping' is not going to get you where you want to go. (Spinning over the rail and releasing at the tangent will, but the impact could be more than one expects.) In fact, it could be very bad for your PC, who, in his ignorance, might give it all he's got and go flying unexpectedly into the nearest object...

As a referee, since you are doing something rather unusual (even when not in Zero-G), I would probably apply a heavy negative Difficulty DM as well.

In my games, such an action might lead to success, despite the PC's lack of odds - but likely would end up comically, or with the PC's faced with a new challenge (how to get Bubby to stop spinning away... and how best to clean vomit from a vacc suit's filters.)

 

[BP]

RE: Security overrides - RL experiences -

At one place I worked we had a door which was supposed to have a radio frequency controlled proximity security lock. It was equipped with a motion sensor - the idea being that the lock would only open when a security badge was nearby and so was a person.

Someone must have gotten tired of it (or it was just mis-installed) because it was actually wired to open anytime anyone went near it... :roll:

At a research facility I worked at the 'cipher lock' door codes changed monthly. I came in on a weekend once only to find my code did not work (new month)... it took me only 8 tries to 'guess' the new code - probably 1701 or 2010 - as research scientist set the codes.

 

[rinku]

Not to mention the old standby (for a keypad) of inspecting the keys to see if any are more worn out/have more fingerprints/are less dusty than other ones.

 

[barnest2]

This is... somewhat amazing. My college had better security than this place. All five entrances had code-locks, with different codes, and not everyone knew every code (at least at the start of term). I'm... stunned by some places

 

[rust]

This is... somewhat amazing. My college had better security than this place. All five entrances had code-locks, with different codes, and not everyone knew every code (at least at the start of term). I'm... stunned by some places

My brother served as a communications guy in NATO's most secure un-
derground command and control facility in Europe. One day my father
was in the region and decided to visit him there. He just walked by the
armed guards with a friendly nod and made it all the way to the commu-
nications centre without being questioned or stopped by anyone - an el-
derly civilian, in civilian clothes.

My brother told me the real problem was to get him out again without
very serious trouble.

 

[BP]

Yep -

The place I guessed the access code for a building received a DoD award for security the previous month - and several months later a very large piece of submarine hull went missing... (several large, continuous gouges led out of the place to the freeway and 15 miles away to a salvage yard!).

I might mention this place had two top of the line battle tanks on the premises - just as accessible as that piece of submarine hull. (Would hope such were hard to get into/operate - but its just as likely that the entry 'locks' would have been defeated as an inconvenience anyway.)

Just last week, a law enforcement client's system was hacked into (by a program) because they refused hardened passwords and lockouts as they didn't want the 'inconvenience'... and some idiot set a username to user and the password to, you guessed it, user.

Even the best of security systems and procedures are often compromised internally by the human element.

Then there are simply bad designs that allow easy circumvention. Like optical only fingerprint readers whose surface leaves a pristine fingerprint impression; sensors that are easily defeated by bubblegum wrappers, Styrofoam coolers wrapped in aluminum foil and simple spliced or cut wires; heavy re-enforced doors in cinder-block walls...

It is not really that unrealistic to assume that non-military, and even military, starships might be extremely easy to compromise at times, despite futuristic tech.

 

[nats]

Yep -

It is not really that unrealistic to assume that non-military, and even military, starships might be extremely easy to compromise at times, despite futuristic tech.

Yeah but the point is that unless they have the skills most average people wouldnt know half of this stuff. There may be ways to exploit an entry system but it shoulodnt be the norm unless the character is highly skilled at hacking or has a high computer/elecronics/intelligence skillset. If the characters dont have the skills the GM shouldnt just let them get in due to a rubbish lock. They should have to approach the problem differently.

If it was me I would probably have an NPC walk past with a suitable keycard or something so that they can use that after knocking him out, or have a security office visible on the way in that could have its computer hacked, or even have someone come out of the ship just as they are trying to get in (could see this happening in Firefly!!).

 

[BP]

Yeah but the point is that unless they have the skills most average people wouldnt know half of this stuff...

Didn't say anything about PCs not having skills and getting past starship locks

Was certainly not advocating just letting PCs in ships for any old silly reason... just relating how things sometimes work in the Real World - and thus how a skilled PC (or unskilled if they somehow have the DMs, or as referee fiat) might gain access to secured locations (after lucky rolls IMTU).

BTW: Most average people do not have 16+ years military experience like the majority of PCs, and certainly don't go on traveller style adventures... a concept I see bantered around a lot on forums that just makes no sense. That Traveller PCs aren't generally meant to be supermen is part of the game mechanics, but that is not the same as being average.

 

[rinku]

Everything I know about intrusion I got from games, TV and movies. Even without the appropriate skills and background, there is *some* chance I could defeat a keypad, pick a lock, crack a safe or break glass silently. Assuming the PCs haven't spent their life on a barbarian world or in a bubble, they probably have some idea about how to go (with appropriate unskilled modifiers). If the security has been particularly lax, they might have a hidden +DM...

 

[rust]

I remember a case where someone used a fake ID card to convince a
technical emergency service to open a door for him "because he had lost
the key". Once the mechanic was gone, he emptied the house of every-
thing valuable and disappeared with it.

With a little unusual luck and some credit chips such a trick ("Here are my
papers, I am the owner of this ship, my idiot steward forgot to tell me the
new entry code - please open that lock for me ...") might even work with
a starship.

 

[Vile]

The upshot of all of the above being that the weak link in any security system is the human element. The more complex and inconvenient the system is for its users, the more likely it is that it will have been switched off or at least neutered to the extent that the PCs can figure a way around it if the referee thinks it should be allowed.

That's really all it comes down to - what chance does the referee give the PCs of defeating the security?