Broken New Ramming Speed! Rules

[AdrianH]

We have had a playtest update today, and the crippled restriction is back.

So how is a Shadow Scout supposed to ram a White Star?

 

[Triggy]

hif - sorry if I sounded a little strong there, I know you personally as a good guy but some of the stick we get as playtesters is a little persistant. Particularly on issues where we've actually seen the public contributions, weighed everything up carefully and made a decision we think reflects both popular demand and our overall design ethic for a fleet.

The White Star Forward arc is based on two main reasons:
1) The White Star in the game plays very differently without it and doesn't quite reflect the style of attack seen in the show.
2) The arc partially represents the extreme manoeuvrability of the ship too and that it can get a bead on most targets regardless of which way the White Star is pointing.

 

[H]

hif - sorry if I sounded a little strong there, I know you personally as a good guy but some of the stick we get as playtesters is a little persistant. Particularly on issues where we've actually seen the public contributions, weighed everything up carefully and made a decision we think reflects both popular demand and our overall design ethic for a fleet.

The White Star Forward arc is based on two main reasons:
1) The White Star in the game plays very differently without it and doesn't quite reflect the style of attack seen in the show.
2) The arc partially represents the extreme manoeuvrability of the ship too and that it can get a bead on most targets regardless of which way the White Star is pointing.

ok, can't really comment on point 1, however i see point two as a bit superflouous on a ship that can actively cover pretty much a 360 arc with it's actual maneuvreability. The issue that irks me most with the forward arc, is that you don't actually have to pick a target, you can just fill your arc. then shoot whats left after your other ship fires . This is I suppose also the issue with the boresight versus Forward arc argument anyway. I just find on a ship that you can't really escape from anyway, it's too much. conversely if the whitestar had boresight and had to choose it's tactics more, it would loose some of it's perceived cheese. . . whilst still being a very good ship.

 

[Burger]

I think the WS is fine with F arc with the current state of rules. If there were to be a fix to boresight/init, then the WS could go boresight. But unless it happens, it should stay F.

 

[Da Boss]

I concur with Burger

 

[Silvereye]

Definitely didn't like the look of the any ship can ram at any time that was being considered. Good to see it was swiftly dropped.

As to Shadows/Vorlons how about just giving it a percentage of damage remaining (e.g. 5% or 10%?) before they can attempt to ram.

As for failed Skin Dancing and the proposed Drazi Attack Run, would halving the effects of the Ram make a big enough difference. (Don't have my rules at the minute to check what a Ram actually does). More of an accidental crash then a deliberate attempt to ram.

I'd also like to see Give Me Ramming Speed exempted from the Skeleton Crew - No Special Actions. I tend to find that any ship that's Crippled is also Skeleton Crewed most of the time. And this is when your kind of thinking of using it.

 

[mollari_uk]

As to Shadows/Vorlons how about just giving it a percentage of damage remaining (e.g. 5% or 10%?) before they can attempt to ram.

For Shadows it would be simple enough to use the Pin number but that might be a bit high?

 

[Methos5000]

For skindancing how about just change it so the ship can't do it if its crippled, its lost too much maneuvering to attempt it so it must try a normal ram.

To be honest you probably wouldn't see many whitestars attempt it otherwise, I wouldn't. To lose a perfectly healthy ship on a single dice roll and only get to roll 10AD DD in return which would barely scratch a hull 6 ship unless you get a crit. Not a good exchange in my opinion.

 

[Greg Smith]

Skindancing with the intent to crash is usually because the WS has lost it's wepons.

 

[l33tpenguin]

Skindancing with the intent to crash is usually because the WS has lost it's wepons.

Failed skin dances should cause the craft to glance off the hull of the opposing ship and run as though adrift for the next turn...

 

[Burger]

So hopefully skindancing is fixed in P&P??

 

[Greg Smith]

Triggy and I have both suggested to Matt that there are issues with it that need fixing.

 

[Da Boss]

hmm lets hope then - be best to fix problems that are already there before /as well as generating new ones with rules like Drazi attack run.

Skin dancing needs a complete rewrite...........

 

[Tolwyn]

There are many things that need a rewrite

 

[Da Boss]

As to Shadows/Vorlons how about just giving it a percentage of damage remaining (e.g. 5% or 10%?) before they can attempt to ram.

For Shadows it would be simple enough to use the Pin number but that might be a bit high?

maybe when they are down to the pin number? or is that what you meant?

 

[mollari_uk]

maybe when they are down to the pin number? or is that what you meant?

Indeed

Not sure about Vorlons, I guess you could use the same formula. This would mean they can ram earlier than other races but that might make some sense as there's only one person to make the decision to ram (i.e. the ship) so it can do so whenever it feels threatened enough.

 

[Silvereye]

maybe when they are down to the pin number? or is that what you meant?

The Shadow Pinning number is probably a bit on the high side for the desperation needed to sacrifice itself. If it has this much damage left, it is likely to just initiate a jump point or Run Like Hell. Perhaps half the pinning score and you may then start thinking it could be 'Critically Wounded or dying' and more likely to be in a position to consider sacrificing itself for the team, instead of just legging it to regenerate.

You could perhaps use the pin score and add in that the Self Repair trait needs to have been disabled for it to get desperate enough.

Remember the Ancients have been living for millennia, and probably desperately want to keep on living. It should be something a lot more special than a final trick to kill an enemy for one of these vessels to want to sacrifice itself.

 

[Methos5000]

Skindancing with the intent to crash is usually because the WS has lost it's wepons.

I suppose thats true.

Although if there weren't crits that would permanently remove damage control or their fire arc they wouldn't need to plow through and enemy ship after losing their weapons.

Not that I have a problem with unrepairable crits, just the frequency of them.

 

[l33tpenguin]

maybe when they are down to the pin number? or is that what you meant?

The Shadow Pinning number is probably a bit on the high side for the desperation needed to sacrifice itself. If it has this much damage left, it is likely to just initiate a jump point or Run Like Hell. Perhaps half the pinning score and you may then start thinking it could be 'Critically Wounded or dying' and more likely to be in a position to consider sacrificing itself for the team, instead of just legging it to regenerate.

You could perhaps use the pin score and add in that the Self Repair trait needs to have been disabled for it to get desperate enough.

Remember the Ancients have been living for millennia, and probably desperately want to keep on living. It should be something a lot more special than a final trick to kill an enemy for one of these vessels to want to sacrifice itself.

Except, at least in the case of the Shadows, there is only the ship. The Shadows don't man their own vessels and I have a feeling that the core programming embedded into the CPU is zealot enough to willingly sacrifice itself for the cause

 

[Silvereye]

But there is an organic entity embedded into the ship as the main CPU. It will have a certain level of self preservation still, perhaps even more so. Whether there will be a 'software' override for this in the ships programming is another matter.