Book 9: Robot - Preview Uploaded

[MongooseMatt]

Just to let you all know, we have uploaded a short preview of the forthcoming Robot book for Traveller.

 

[Golan2072]

Great!

 

[IanBruntlett]

Even better... the Contents page lists a dedicated proofreader!

 

[simonh]

Just had a look at the preview and my interest in this supplement has gone from minimal to Can't Wait.

Simon Hibbs

 

[IanBruntlett]

Even better... the Contents page lists a dedicated proofreader!

Well it does. But who guarantees it's not employee of a cheap chinese outsourcing workshop who's englisch is even worse than that of German Ex-President Heinrich Lübke (Equal it goes loose)?

As ever, there are no guarantees. However, it is a good sign

 

[Treebore]

I love how people complain about errors, show me an RPG book by anyone that doesn't contain errors. I doubt you can, I have checked over dozens of books from pretty much every RPG company out there, they ALL have errors.

Heck, I find errors in just about every book I have ever used, even 5th editions of college books!

I think even the 15th printing of the 1E AD&D DMG still had errors in it!

 

[dmccoy1693]

(And you won't find them in college books)

The difference is is that college books cost ~$250 while the pocket version of the traveller book costs ~$20, less than 10% of the price. The gaming industry would cease if they cost ~$250 per book.

 

[Colin]

Yeah, but you're also talking far larger print runs, and thus greater margins.

The RPG business is very niche-oriented, with small print runs for most books.

 

[DFW]

Yeah, but you're also talking far larger print runs, and thus greater margins.

The RPG business is very niche-oriented, with small print runs for most books.

Simple, VERY cheap (thus, guaranteed to NOT be used) solution.

When the "final" edit is done, have a stable of long term fans pre-purchase at 1/2 price and go over with a fine toothed comb. Problem SOLVED.

 

[IanBruntlett]

Simple, VERY cheap (thus, guaranteed to NOT be used) solution.

When the "final" edit is done, have a stable of long term fans pre-purchase at 1/2 price and go over with a fine toothed comb. Problem SOLVED.

I agree. I've test-played "Prison Planet" for Mongoose. However, I got to see the work in progress in the form of MS Word documents emailed to me (I and at least one other reader use Linux and OpenOffice to view these files). I didn't get to see the accompanying pictures until my final printed copy arrived.

Ages ago, a new book was announced for hard-pressed GMs to rustle up an adventure with the minimum of effort. It hasn't arrived yet but I did offer to help Matt Sprange as a tester. No reply yet but it does look like he's hired a proofreader so the problem might be considered fixed.

Borrowing from the Open Source Software crowd, "Given enough eye balls all bugs are shallow" so having enthusiasts and professionals work on a title should be reflected in better quality.

 

[simonh]

Problem SOLVED.

Really in to the easy universal solutions, eh?

Lets say this play testing, response, re-edit and layout, re-release cycle increases the length-in-development of a book by 10%. That's for every book. So Mongoose produces 10% fewer books. So that's the equivalent to 10% less revenue for Mongoose, and therefore either a 10% cut in staff or a 10% pay cut for every employee.

Great solution you've got yourself there.

Simon Hibbs

 

[AndrewW]

I agree. I've test-played "Prison Planet" for Mongoose. However, I got to see the work in progress in the form of MS Word documents emailed to me (I and at least one other reader use Linux and OpenOffice to view these files). I didn't get to see the accompanying pictures until my final printed copy arrived.

Agreed. It's not usually in layout form when it goes out for playtesting and doesn't include the art. (Although I did get one late in the process that was).

 

[DFW]

Problem SOLVED.

Really in to the easy universal solutions, eh?

Lets say this play testing, response, re-edit and layout, re-release cycle increases the length-in-development of a book by 10%. That's for every book. So Mongoose produces 10% fewer books.

I'm not talking about play test at that point. Just edit mistakes. I guess it could increase time by 10% if employing idiots. I wouldn't know as I have a policy against hiring such people for critical positions. YMMV

 

[DFW]

Borrowing from the Open Source Software crowd, "Given enough eye balls all bugs are shallow" so having enthusiasts and professionals work on a title should be reflected in better quality.

Exactly. At least the major errors and omissions would be caught. No missing/misplaced tables. Major rule bugs, etc.

 

[IanBruntlett]

Lets say this play testing, response, re-edit and layout, re-release cycle increases the length-in-development of a book by 10%. That's for every book. So Mongoose produces 10% fewer books. So that's the equivalent to 10% less revenue for Mongoose, and therefore either a 10% cut in staff or a 10% pay cut for every employee.

I suppose all companies have to decide how to address the quality issue. There's a guy called Philip Crosby who wrote a book "Quality is free" - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_B._Crosby

 

[E.D.Quibell]

I suppose all companies have to decide how to address the quality issue. There's a guy called Philip Crosby who wrote a book "Quality is free" - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_B._Crosby

Good point. How much did High Guard cost?

Regards,

Ewan

 

[DFW]

I suppose all companies have to decide how to address the quality issue. There's a guy called Philip Crosby who wrote a book "Quality is free" - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_B._Crosby

Wow! Really talented guy.

 

[Treebore]

I love how people complain about errors, show me an RPG book by anyone that doesn't contain errors. I doubt you can, I have checked over dozens of books from pretty much every RPG company out there, they ALL have errors.

Heck, I find errors in just about every book I have ever used, even 5th editions of college books!

I think even the 15th printing of the 1E AD&D DMG still had errors in it!

The problem is that I can find errors in the current Mongoose stuff without looking hard for it. And englisch is not my first language.

And it's not just spelling it is also Layout errors. And those are easier to catch (And you won't find them in college books). Stuff like the wrong TOC (Twice), text that runs into the margins, text that lacks spaces etc.

That is stuff a decend proof-reader would/should catch

I guess its a good thing your not a fan of 4E D&D. Biggest RPG company around an they have tons of errata for their books.

 

[Treebore]

(And you won't find them in college books)

The difference is is that college books cost ~$250 while the pocket version of the traveller book costs ~$20, less than 10% of the price. The gaming industry would cease if they cost ~$250 per book.

The average book in Computer Science runs between 30-60€ for the typical stuff. Same for Mathematics. And those are well proof-read.

Our books run 60 pounds, or to be more precise, $120 in US currency. I know, because I had to pay for my daughters Linear Algebra textbook a couple of semesters ago. Maybe it did have any lay out problems, but my daughter, with my help, pointed out a problem that had the wrong answer in the answer key. Something that the Professor, and the company, missed through 5 printings.

Back when I was in college I had a Professor who wrote the text book, it was in its 4th printing getting ready for its 5th, and my class mates made her aware pages were actually MISSING. She wrote and taught out of her book for 4 printings, and so she had a copy of each of the previous printings, and proved to her self that these pages had been missing the entire time.

So even text books can get screwed up.

 

[Stainless]

Problem SOLVED.

Really in to the easy universal solutions, eh?

Lets say this play testing, response, re-edit and layout, re-release cycle increases the length-in-development of a book by 10%. That's for every book. So Mongoose produces 10% fewer books. So that's the equivalent to 10% less revenue for Mongoose, and therefore either a 10% cut in staff or a 10% pay cut for every employee.

Great solution you've got yourself there.

Simon Hibbs

I'm afraid the fault in your logic is that the past poor proof-reading/editing by Mongoose has led to far greater loss of sales for them (no I can't quantify it, I have no evidence, but I'm quite confident about that statement). Read the forums and you'll see the reputation Mongoose has for this and the reaction many people have to it.

I agree that all RPGs have errors, and even professional textbook runs have them. I agree that that there are cost/benefits to be considered. But the type of errors one sees regularly in Mongoose publications are the type that jump off the page and smack you between the eyes. Thus, I suspect a lot of the reaction readers have is fuelled by incredulity that such things can be passed.

It is a good sign that a dedicated proof-reader has been used, but it is demonstrable that this has been inadequate for some past publications. I'd encourage the use of a dedicated proof-reader plus what fan-based volunteer proof-reading they can get.