BF:EVO Reaction clarification

[BuShips]

Could there be any clarification made as to whether what is happening inside of any 10" Reaction area to an Action that might affect more than two enemy units that those Reactions would be considered as happening simultaneously?

Examples of two separate outcomes given a similar event:

Event- A unit of infantry is next to a friendly vehicle that can carry them and both are deciding what options they can choose from when Reacting to an enemy Action that they are within 10" of.

1- The troops can board the vehicle and the vehicle can still make a Move Reaction.

2- The troops cannot board the vehicle as long as the vehicle wishes to make a Move Reaction because the Reactions of both units are considered as simultaneous to the Action that they are reacting to. The vehicle could move away but it would do so unloaded.

Since a Reaction should not contain the same options as what can happen over two normal Actions, limiting simultaneous Reaction options to an "either/or" is a method of plugging a loophole that could be used to compress two Actions into a Reaction period.

This came up on the BF thread "Reaction Question" as a side effect of the discussion of another subject. I will not be disatisfied regardless of which way it would be answered but am just curious of what the answer would be.

 

[BuShips]

I want to thank other forum members for not commenting so far, at least until MGP can comment on it. Here is another thought that will need to be added in order to provide Mongoose with more info.

How might Suppression be allowed in a Reaction in regards to friendly vehicles near it? Since the act of Suppression removes one of the two Actions required in order to mount the vehicle, does this still allow the rule that troops can use a Move action to board the vehicle? If the rules as written would disallow vehicular boarding, that would also seem to disallow an unsuppressed infantry unit from boarding except under a player's own turn. If it is determined however that unsupressed infantry can board a vehicle, shouldn't the vehicle at least be limited to not doing either a Move ot Shoot action at the very least?

The root of my original question was really what is the value in time between an Action (or Two of them) and a Reaction? The addition of the Suppression example just reinforces that a ruling clarification is needed. The "conservative" answer might be that a Reaction cannot contain anything that would expend two normal Actions.

Basically, this just adds more 'meat' to chew on before giving any answer.

 

[MongooseMatt]

1- The troops can board the vehicle and the vehicle can still make a Move Reaction.

I cannot see a problem in your examples (remembering that only one Move action per turn is allowed, so if they have already moved in the turn. . .). Otherwise, it is up to you in what order you move your own units. . .

 

[MongooseMatt]

How might Suppression be allowed in a Reaction in regards to friendly vehicles near it? Since the act of Suppression removes one of the two Actions required in order to mount the vehicle, does this still allow the rule that troops can use a Move action to board the vehicle?

Again, there is nothing in the rules to stop you mounting the vehicle, as you are fulfilling the requirements for both - you have lost an action to Suppression, and are using only one action to board. . .

 

[BuShips]

How might Suppression be allowed in a Reaction in regards to friendly vehicles near it? Since the act of Suppression removes one of the two Actions required in order to mount the vehicle, does this still allow the rule that troops can use a Move action to board the vehicle?

Again, there is nothing in the rules to stop you mounting the vehicle, as you are fulfilling the requirements for both - you have lost an action to Suppression, and are using only one action to board. . .

This is all fine when considering a player's normal turn (with the exception to my comment at the bottom here), but the question is how does this compare when considering this during a Reaction and not an Action? I would presume that there was an equality between an Action and a Reaction but in some cases there appears to be things that some might think they could do in a Reaction that seems to go against logic.

For an example, I'll use a sequence that I did not write up but that explains well the predicament.

Feel free to comment on this possible chain of decision:


Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject:

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The whole situation becomes stupid if you allow this move.

Example:

One infantry unit and one transport is taking fire.
The infantry unit is supressed and moves as a reaction to mount the vehicle.
The vehicle is NOT suppressed and moves away.

Next time it is my turn.... are my infantry INSIDE the transport still suppressed?
Do they have to take an action to remove suppression to dismount?

I hate it.

I will not allow such moves in my game.


------------------------------------

You might see the following thread as to where this came from:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/p...&start=30&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Although my focus is mainly upon choices during a Reaction, I still have a comment on your reply above. My train of thought goes like this- Under Transport card rules it states if models either enter or leave the vehicle, then both the models and the vehicle may only take a single action in that turn. IF you are saying that between the two units boarding or leaving that they expend four Move actions, how can there be a penalty imposed if during the next Player turn the infantry can still board a vehicle as they would under unsuppressed conditions? It would seem that the player is getting a "two-fer" as the lost Action under Suppression can be merged with the lost extra Action that it takes to mount/dismount a vehicle?

 

[MongooseMatt]

I _think_ I get what you are driving at

When suppressed, you _lose_ actions - you do not expend them to 'clear' the suppression.

So, yes, you could enter a vehicle while suppressed (seems like a good idea when under fire!).

 

[BuShips]

Here is a tidbit that I'll place here as it is not worth a topic of its own.

I understand clearly that when mounting/dismounting a vehicle that the models will be using their single Action as a Move action and no other Action is allowed, but what about the vehicle? The Transport rules do not specifically state whether the vehicle has to spend its single remaining Action in swinging the doors open/closed so other than obviously denying it a Move could it take a Shoot action?

 

[BuShips]

After you answer my tidbit just above, maybe you could take a quick swing by http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27879&start=30&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= and see what is being discussed. It might better explain from whence my questions are coming.

I thank you kind Sir for the attention .

 

[BuShips]

I _think_ I get what you are driving at

When suppressed, you _lose_ actions - you do not expend them to 'clear' the suppression.

So, yes, you could enter a vehicle while suppressed (seems like a good idea when under fire!).

If you wanted to not be so kind you might make the infantry models spend a Move action to run to the unengaged side of the vehicle. Then you might make them take a full two Actions to board the vehicle. That is, if you were not so kind. :wink:

Also, here is a really condensed version of my overall question:

Can you take options during a Reaction that would take two Actions during a normal player turn?

 

[The Old Soldier]

No offense Buship, but if you just phrased a question in a simple manner, this could have been cleared up rather quickly.

The question regards 2 units that have a enemy unit finish it's move within reaction range.

Please answer the following questions with a yes or no answer.

1. Can both units make a reaction?

2. If so if one unit was say a MEA squad, and the other a Technical. Could the MEA squad board the Technical as it's reaction then the Technical as it's reaction take a move action?

3. If the answer is NO to either question, please explain why?

4. Question should a unit be able to make a reaction if it became suppressed?

5. If the above answers to 1,2,4 are YES. Then a suppressed unit could react to move to a vehicle that can react, and the reacting vehicle could then move the unit out of harms way. That said, there is NO penality to the suppressed squad, because they lose one action to unload anyway, along with the Vehicle. Correct?


That should do it Bullship.

 

[BuShips]

No offense Buship, but if you just phrased a question in a simple manner, this could have been cleared up rather quickly.

The question regards 2 units that have a enemy unit finish it's move within reaction range.

Please answer the following questions with a yes or no answer.

1. Can both units make a reaction?

2. If so if one unit was say a MEA squad, and the other a Technical. Could the MEA squad board the Technical as it's reaction then the Technical as it's reaction take a move action?

3. If the answer is NO to either question, please explain why?

4. Question should a unit be able to make a reaction if it became suppressed?

5. If the above answers to 1,2,4 are YES. Then a suppressed unit could react to move to a vehicle that can react, and the reacting vehicle could then move the unit out of harms way. That said, there is NO penality to the suppressed squad, because they lose one action to unload anyway, along with the Vehicle. Correct?


That should do it Bullship.

At least you didn't spell it "Bullchips" :lol:
I did try to "finally" phrase it simply.

Can you take options during a Reaction that would take two Actions during a normal player turn? I think he'll say 'yes.'

I hope Matt has a clear head for all of this, heh.

 

[GhostWolf69]

1- The troops can board the vehicle and the vehicle can still make a Move Reaction.

I cannot see a problem in your examples (remembering that only one Move action per turn is allowed, so if they have already moved in the turn. . .). Otherwise, it is up to you in what order you move your own units. . .

Sorry Matt... but where in the rules does it say only ONE Move Action is allowed? ... As I recall it is even one of the examples given that you can take two move actions.

Are you confusing Move Actions with Reaction? (Cause only ONE Reaction is allowed per turn).

/wolf

 

[GhostWolf69]

I _think_ I get what you are driving at

When suppressed, you _lose_ actions - you do not expend them to 'clear' the suppression.

So, yes, you could enter a vehicle while suppressed (seems like a good idea when under fire!).

So how and when can I move out if I have lost 2 Actions due to Suppression?

Example:
My infantry is Suppressed twice (making me loose 2 Actions in my next turn) I use my Reaction to mount a vehicle...

Next turn comes up... my Mounted unite has NO actions so it cannot dismount this turn.

Correct?

/wolf