BF [d]evolutions?

Actually they are mountains, but be careful with that in Germany, cause that aint the alps.
Sometimes they have really nice formations of single hills/mountains that are just next to each other. Thatd be like a dozen passes to close in a narrow area.

But yes slowing the soviet tank rush were nuclear weapons and pretty much nothing else.

The plains along the Rhine river are evil, just flat terrain. You could have a fields day playing real wargames there. No hills (none worth mentioning like 10 metres?) to hide behind for kilometres on end.
 
I know they're mountains...I'm teasing EP about it.

And since it's the quickest route to the Rhine, it was one of the two obvious ways of invading Germany. They deployed Davey Crockett and the W54 warhead....
davy6.jpg


One of the smallest nuclear weapons ever wielded, the Davy Crockett was developed in the late 1950s for use against Soviet troops in West Germany. Small teams of the Atomic Battle Group (Charged with operating the device) would be stationed every few kilometers to guard against Soviet attack, using the power of their nuclear artillery shells to kill or incapacitate advancing troop formations and irradiate the area so that it was uninhabitable for up to 48 hours, long enough to mobilize NATO-Forces.


U.S. officials view a Davy Crocket casing.The M-388 round used a version of the W54 warhead, a very small sub-kiloton fission device. The Mk-54 weighed about 51 lb (23 kg), with a selectable yield of 10 or 20 tons (very close to the minimum practical size and yield for a fission warhead). The complete round weighed 76 lb (34.5 kg). It was 31 in. (78.7 cm) long with a diameter of 11 in. (28 cm) at its widest point; a subcaliber piston at the back of the shell was actually inserted into the launcher's barrel for firing.

The Davy Crockett could be launched from either of two launchers: the 4-inch (120 mm) M28, with a range of about 1.25 mi (2 km), or the 6-in (155 mm) M29, with a range of 2.5 mi (4 km). Both weapons used the same projectile, and could be mounted on a tripod launcher or carried by truck or armored personnel carrier. They were operated by a three-man crew.

Both recoilless rifles proved to have poor accuracy in testing, so the shell's greatest effect would have been its extreme radiation hazard. Even at a low yield setting, the M388 would produce an almost instantly lethal radiation dosage (in excess of 10,000 rem) within 500 feet (150 m), and a probably fatal dose (around 600 rem) within a quarter mile (400 meters).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

Also, you got a few of these laying around:
Medium_Atomic_Demolition_Munition_%28with_scientists%29.jpg


Medium Atomic Demolition Munition (MADM) was a tactical nuclear weapon developed by the United States during the Cold War. They were designed to be used as nuclear land mines and for other tactical purposes, with a relatively low explosive yield from a W45 warhead, between 1 and 15 kilotons. Note that this is still very powerful by conventional explosive standards; for example this is slightly more powerful than the bomb that destroyed Hiroshima and more than two to three orders of magnitude larger in explosive power than the largest conventional bomb, the MOAB. Each MADM weighed around 400 lb (181 kg) total. They were produced between 1965 and 1986.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_Atomic_Demolition_Munition
 
Yer those mountains are fun ^^

And i remember the davy crockett form history classes. Nothing like the teacher telling you: "The soviets not attacking us was nice, cause yer allies would pound you into dust at the first sign of soviet tank."
 
you could have shown the whole map Hiro....

497px-Deutschland_topo.png


As you can see a large area of northern Germany is very, very flat and no mountain blocking would have happened there, likewise the fulda gap where there is a large gap in the mountains.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulda_Gap


Note to Hiro: All I said was they'd be no use to the north, you're the one arguing they would. Fine in the mountain passes but as I said, they'd not have sealed any passes on the north german plain :wink:
 
I never mentioned anything about the Northern plains, Emperor. If I came across as if I was talking about the Northern Plains, sorry about that.

The Fulda gap is easilly taken care of even by the smallest of those nuclear charges (1 Kiloton).... and since the Soviets were really just going to go through the gap (Because the northern plains would have given the Allies more time to react), they'd be met by those nuclear charges bringing the sides of the mountains down on them, then a barrage of DC's.
 
Hiromoon said:
I never mentioned anything about the Northern plains, Emperor. If I came across as if I was talking about the Northern Plains, sorry about that.

The Fulda gap is easilly taken care of even by the smallest of those nuclear charges (1 Kiloton).... and since the Soviets were really just going to go through the gap (Because the northern plains would have given the Allies more time to react), they'd be met by those nuclear charges bringing the sides of the mountains down on them, then a barrage of DC's.

The soviets battle plans envisaged attacks at several places, the czech and hungarians going through austria and bavaria, then soviet forces through both the fulda gap AND the north german plain. More time to react? How? They'd have raced across there with the allies trying to defend the natural obstacles (ie rivers as in Hackett's "Third World War" and Clancy's "Red Storm Rising") with Denmark and northern Germany swiftly over-run, Holland in danger
 
Blow the bridges of course. And since the army sitting at the gap was the one given priority in equipment and other supplies, a successful push through Northern Germany would be highly unlikely.


Plus any forces comming through the Cezh and Hungarian borders would be primarilly Soviet Russian forces, again suffering from equipment deficencies due to the 8th Guard getting primary equipping...there there's terrain to concider....you think the gap's the only place those charges were used? And to top it all off, Germany would have been nuked out of existance, catching the majority of soviet forces.

As Voronesh said:
And i remember the davy crockett form history classes. Nothing like the teacher telling you: "The soviets not attacking us was nice, cause yer allies would pound you into dust at the first sign of soviet tank."
 
Well there's many historians and military theorists who'd disagree with you Hiro. Hackett and Clancy both considered the Soviets would do well across the north German plain. Conventional thinking was that Denmark was done for.

And what if the war had stayed non nuclear.....
 
Just remember one major factor in tanks abuility to self support, actually two fuel and Track Life.

Not sure what current track life expectancy is, when I was stationed in Germany 1966 to 1970 the official figure was 300 road miles.

That is the essential reason virtually all Soviet tanks sent in to Czech. during 1969 invasion were shipped in by rail. I remember several Soviet Armored Divisions sitting staged 7 clicks over the Czech border from Germany.

There were many other factors covered in Red Storm Rising by Clancy.

The more open the terrain the more susceptible Armor is to dedicated ground support systems like the A10 Warthog.

Terrain like that with its minor elevation chaneges still allows for hull down one shot kills by Abrams-- it is called Shoot and Scoot for a reason. Shoot Kill, Scoot by prepared covered route to next hull down position. Keep it up. A hill of only 10 to 15 meters height can allow for such a tactic. The hill can be very gently rolling and still be useable depending on surrounding terrain.

Soviet Armor by sheer numbers could have overwhelmed NATO Armor but their losses would have been terrible to suffer. I believe the ratio was in excess of ten to one Soviet versus Nato, not including technology differences.
 
That and every wargame run resulted in tactical nuclear warfare, which promply escalated to full blown ballistic warfare.... The plan was to convince the russians it was better to eyeball us instead of going in.
 
Hiromoon said:
That and every wargame run resulted in tactical nuclear warfare, which promply escalated to full blown ballistic warfare.... The plan was to convince the russians it was better to eyeball us instead of going in.

every wargame I played ended in tactical nuclear warfare but that was because I enjoy the carnage involved! :twisted:
 
I really get a kick out of the way Bush/Blair are blmaned for all the evils in todays world.

Keep in mind it was "Wild Bill" Clinton who did not have the stones to pull the trigger and if that wan't bad enough took a lot of the power out of PDR 39?

Guess not. Keep in mind it is a game and keep the politics out.
Irondog
 
Oh? If we're going to pass the blame around...why didn't Bush Senior do anything either? Hmmm? Tuck it back in Irondog and let's get back to gaming.
 
irondog068 said:
I really get a kick out of the way Bush/Blair are blmaned for all the evils in todays world.

Keep in mind it was "Wild Bill" Clinton who did not have the stones to pull the trigger and if that wan't bad enough took a lot of the power out of PDR 39?

Guess not. Keep in mind it is a game and keep the politics out.
Irondog

dunno where this is coming from as there's been no mention of either for 2 pages...

anyway, there's millions of things bush and Blair could have done differently, same for clinton, John major and whoever else, but who cares? it's the situaiton we're in and have to deal with.
 
Amen Lorcan Nagle,
We have to live in the now and prepare for the future.

Long live Battlefield Evo and SST Evo may they prosper and give us more shiny, shiny toys and rules to play with and to play by. :D :D
 
Back
Top