byram said:
Soulmage said:
Plus, I seem to remember a quarter million U.S. and allied troops engaging the main military forces of a sovereign power about 3 years ago? Why have things changed so much all of a sudden that you think that kind of war won't happen again? Have you even been watching what's going on in Iran or North Korea?
Iraq sovereign? did i miss that memo? did it not have the proper TPS report cover? ill give you the reason for war were unfounded, ill give you our president can be a dumb toushy at some times, ill give you alot of things, but i ask you one question, in the end do you say that taking saddam out of power was a bad thing?
Ummm. . . yes. Iraq was a sovreign nation:
sov·er·eign (sŏv'ər-ĭn, sŏv'rĭn)
adj.
Self-governing; independent: a sovereign state.
As far as my position on the war, since you asked. I think it was a good idea to invade. I think the reasons given (WMD) were stupid at the time and I said so. It put too much emphasis on finding them (as we later saw that was a mistake). Iraq should have been invaded as a terrorisim sponsoring enemy of the United States who has been taking pot shots at our troops for the dozen years prior. People tend to forget that there were something like 130 attacks a year on American forces stationed in the region to enforce the post Desert Storm no-fly zone and other issues.
I do think the war was poorly executed and the military leadership failed utterly in planning a successful campaign and subsequent occupation. The outcome of the invasion was never in doubt.
So yes, I supported the war, and Iraq was a sovereign nation. If you support the action, you have to be honest about what we did/are doing.
Soulmage said:
The world is not a stable place, and anything can change. In case you haven't been paying attention, our (America's) security leaves much to be desired. While its extremely unlikely, and the feds are doing everything the can to prevent it, there's no guarantee that New York won't be dissolving in a nuclear fireball this afternoon. It can happen, and whoever wound up being responsible or even hosting those being responsible, I guarantee you their would be American tanks rolling across their countryside by October.
byram said:
also NK and Iran dont have the testicular fortitude to use Nukes, the name of the game in nuclear warfare is to be the person to not shoot first, because the rest of the surviving world comes down on you (in all out Nuclear war, it dont matter who died first, we are all screwed), their economy is in shambles they dont have the backbone to stand econmic sanctions against them.
Don't count on it. Initiating nuclear war with the United States is not a question of bravery, its a question of insanity. The leaders of those two particular countries don't strike me as being sane, well adjusted individuals. More like extremely unstable and paranoid power mad dictators.
byram said:
terrorist cells using nukes may happen, but only one time, terrorist have a habit of proclaiming they did an action in front of a camera, all for propoganda purposes, they use nukes on one american city, we we will turn their mountain cave into glass. yes, even though Shaykh Fahad declared a Fatwah on the US allowing the use of WMDs, consider this, our intel is very good, our allies intel is very good, we probably would know who sent the WMD to the terrorist cell.
I have not been impressed with our intel. And personally, the idea that "we would know who did it" if NY got vaped gives me little comfort.
byram said:
and by the way, not to sound rude or anything, this is just a friendly conversation after all, the threat of NY being vaped has been around for maybe 45 years or so, ever hear of the cold war
Yes, didn't mention it as it was not really relevant to the current situation.
Soulmage said:
People have been predicting the Main Battle Tank was obsolete for 30+ years, and yet, we still seem to be getting quite a bit of use out of them!
byram said:
they are pretty much obsolete, a helicopter can pop one open like a zit from behind a hill. a person with a one hundred dollar RPG can get a mobility kill on an Abrams, yes this happened several times, although it usually resulted in the RPG gunner getting killed, and yes a mobility kill can at times be as good as a total kill, especially in a city.
You would have wanted to send our guys in humvees against even the admittedly obsolete tanks of the Republican Guard? I don't think so. We still would have won due to our overwhelming air superiority - notable the attack helicopters you mention, but a lot more of our guys would have gotten killed.
