Beamless Centauri - Take Two

Neither point specifically states that the Narn obtained laser technology from the Centauri. G'Kar states they learned how to recreate Centauri "weapons," but doesn't specify what weapons they were, and Franklin's speech clearly indicates a bias against beam weapons.

The CG diagram of the Primus is clearly outmoded by the on-screen evidence. If it had lasers, why didn't it use them in the two incidents we see a Primus fight? Perhaps the original intention was for the Centauri to use beams, but the decision was later taken to remove them, and the old CG diagram continued to float around the 'net. After all, that B5tech website states all kinds of nonsense for ships' armament and systems, across the spectrum of races.
 
It stands to reason that if the Narn learnt how to fight etc from the Centauri AND reversed engineered the weapons. The weapons they have are reversed engineered Centauri weapons.

Also it was my belief that JMS had a hard on for B5 Wars, so it stands to reason he agreed with their stuff as canon.

Also if the ship had lasers in the design plans but were not used in the show. Maybe, just a little maybe these lasers were not as powerful or destructive as the rest of their weapons. You do not use pop guns when you have big guns to play with.
 
Clanger said:
Also if the ship had lasers in the design plans but were not used in the show. Maybe, just a little maybe these lasers were not as powerful or destructive as the rest of their weapons. You do not use pop guns when you have big guns to play with.

Wouldn't that be a justification to make them mini-beams, and reduce their status to "secondaries"?

Regards,

Dave
 
Clanger said:
It stands to reason that if the Narn learnt how to fight etc from the Centauri AND reversed engineered the weapons. The weapons they have are reversed engineered Centauri weapons.

Also it was my belief that JMS had a hard on for B5 Wars, so it stands to reason he agreed with their stuff as canon.

Also if the ship had lasers in the design plans but were not used in the show. Maybe, just a little maybe these lasers were not as powerful or destructive as the rest of their weapons. You do not use pop guns when you have big guns to play with.

You don't even mount pop guns when you can mount big guns. The Primus in season 2 was fighting for its life against a Narn G'Quan, it'd fire every weapon it had that was capable of hurting the target, and if Centauri beams were so weak they couldn't hurt a frontline warship why would they even bother with them?
 
Triggy said:
As for the technology aspect, it is repeated many times that the Narn technology and in particular weaponry is reverse engineered from Centauri patterns.

True, but the Narn also have weapon systems that have no Centauri corollary as well - the energy mine. It seems likely therefore that they either developed it themselves, or got it from someone else, so it isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion that they got beam technology from the Centauri.

Regards,

Dave
 
Lord David the Denied said:
You don't even mount pop guns when you can mount big guns. The Primus in season 2 was fighting for its life against a Narn G'Quan, it'd fire every weapon it had that was capable of hurting the target, and if Centauri beams were so weak they couldn't hurt a frontline warship why would they even bother with them?

Perhaps it was boresighted and couldn't get into arc! ;)

Regards,

Dave
 
They had suffered a prvious weapons crit and had not repaired it :)

they were a Secondus

the Beam system was down for maintainance

The Centauri Captain was an overconfident idiot who had gained his position thorugh Family influence rather than ability

lots of possibilities :)

Of course you could turn the argument around - who says the emines were not a Centauri invention - its not like the Narn can make things themselves :wink:
 
the books says they used centarauri fighter reactor cores as makeshift bombs. just adaptig tyechnology it was.


as for the beams, nto so sure why it didn;t use them. maybe it wasn;t in the plot? if it chad used them, it migth have killed the ship before it had a chacne to escape?
 
Lord David the Denied said
You don't even mount pop guns when you can mount big guns

Infact warships mount various types of weapons to deal with different type of targets. You do not use a big gun to take out a fighter.

So if we went on your design specs, Tanks would just be a big cannon and forget the MGs to take out troops. Also as I am not a military type I could be wrong.
 
Foxmeister said:
Triggy said:
As for the technology aspect, it is repeated many times that the Narn technology and in particular weaponry is reverse engineered from Centauri patterns.

True, but the Narn also have weapon systems that have no Centauri corollary as well - the energy mine. It seems likely therefore that they either developed it themselves, or got it from someone else, so it isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion that they got beam technology from the Centauri.

Regards,

Dave
That's why it's only evidence rather than proof. In fact, there is no proof of many things in the show, this is why we use all of the available information that we can. This includes the visuals - there are clearly gun ports in the wings and they are clearly identified by the designers as laser ports.


Lord David the Denied said:
Neither point specifically states that the Narn obtained laser technology from the Centauri. G'Kar states they learned how to recreate Centauri "weapons," but doesn't specify what weapons they were, and Franklin's speech clearly indicates a bias against beam weapons.

The CG diagram of the Primus is clearly outmoded by the on-screen evidence. If it had lasers, why didn't it use them in the two incidents we see a Primus fight? Perhaps the original intention was for the Centauri to use beams, but the decision was later taken to remove them, and the old CG diagram continued to float around the 'net. After all, that B5tech website states all kinds of nonsense for ships' armament and systems, across the spectrum of races.
We don't see a lot of things in the show, however as pointed out above, we have to use all available information and the fact that there are laser ports on the ship is incontrovertable. Why didn't they fire in the show? Who knows? It's most likely a CG issue but there could be all sorts of reasons for it. We never see the Hyperions in the Severed Dreams main battle but this doesn't mean that they mysteriously fled halfway through the battle either. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Hell, the aft guns on the Alexander in the Severed Dreams intro were meant to be pulse cannon (and therefore interceptable hence the reference in the script) but the CG bods decided that beam fire looked cooler so did that. Just because the intention of the script writers and the 3D model designers is one thing, it doesn't mean that the animators will go along with the same plan, they'll generally produce whatever looks best on screen so long as it doesn't completely contradict the script (re: Nukes in space discussion on another thread - nukes in space don't create pressure or thermal shockwaves in the same way as in an atmosphere).
 
Triggy said:
We don't see a lot of things in the show, however as pointed out above, we have to use all available information
Such as when Franklin testifies in court as an expert witness, and states that the Centauri do not use beam weapons? Is that a CGI error too? ;)

Triggy said:
the fact that there are laser ports on the ship is incontrovertable. Why didn't they fire in the show? Who knows? It's most likely a CG issue
Could equally be the presence of laser mounts that is the CGI mistake, not the fact that they don't fire...
 
He actually testifies on how the Centauri use their weapons, not that they don't use beam weapons.

I think we're getting bogged down though with the "canonicity" of certain aspects of the game/show. At the end of the day there is room for interpretation either way here (like the Narn boresight beams) and a decision was made to make them much more reliant on ion cannon weaponry compared to the B5W and 1st ed. versions of the Centauri. This in itself makes them a lot more like they are on the show without totally getting rid of the beams that have been there from the start.
 
Triggy said:
At the end of the day there is room for interpretation either way here (like the Narn boresight beams)

On this point I don't agree that there's any room for interpretation. The G'Quan shouldn't be boresight, period.

Regards,

Dave
 
lol theres more views of boresight G'quans than of non-boresight G'quans. the only non-boresight one tends to be that narn admirals, so perhaps an experienced crew, which is why the refit is in there.
 
Clanger said:
It stands to reason that if the Narn learnt how to fight etc from the Centauri AND reversed engineered the weapons. The weapons they have are reversed engineered Centauri weapons.

:shock:

No offense, but your logic is very faulty good sir. Several people in this thread are using that same faulty logic though so you aren't alone. :)

The statement that the Narn reverse engineered weapons from the centauri does not automatically mean they reverse engineered ALL weapons from the centauri. You are assuming an absolute in your comparison when the original example did not contain one.

Tzarevitch
 
katadder said:
lol theres more views of boresight G'quans than of non-boresight G'quans. the only non-boresight one tends to be that narn admirals, so perhaps an experienced crew, which is why the refit is in there.

I disagree - it simply shows that there are more scenes of G'Quans firing beams at an enemy directly ahead of them as they close on the enemy, which is not the same as *only* being able to fire directly ahead. There are several scenes where we see Sharlins firing beams directly ahead to, but there's no boresight option for them!

IMHO, the refit option might as well not be there for 99% of games since it can only be used in campaigns, but it's pretty clear that its not going to get the forward arc beam it deserves in P&P, so I shan't labour the point further! ;)

Regards,

Dave
 
I don't see any justification for any boresighted weapons in the on-screen evidence, but we're wandering away from the point here.

I'll start writing up my beamless Centauri list in the next few days and post it here.
 
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