Basic Training

[anselyn]

Compared to six Level 0 skills as basic training in a first career, one picked Level 0 skill in subsequent careers seems harsh. I'd make that one Level 1 skill in further basic trainings.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Compared to six Level 0 skills as basic training in a first career, one picked Level 0 skill in subsequent careers seems harsh. I'd make that one Level 1 skill in further basic trainings.

What happens when players figure out to do just one term, then switch to another term in something else to get that level 1 skill?

 

[paulsnow]

Compared to six Level 0 skills as basic training in a first career, one picked Level 0 skill in subsequent careers seems harsh. I'd make that one Level 1 skill in further basic trainings.

What happens when players figure out to do just one term, then switch to another term in something else to get that level 1 skill?

Answer: Make it a roll rather than a choice so it's Level 1 but not selected.

Also worth noting that switching will fail at some point as the DM of -(number of careers) is there and not switching gives higher rank and thus better benefits so the rules discourage it as written.

But also and mostly - what's wrong with players getting what they want?

 

[TrippyHippy]

Compared to six Level 0 skills as basic training in a first career, one picked Level 0 skill in subsequent careers seems harsh. I'd make that one Level 1 skill in further basic trainings.

You could just ensure that a key skill is provided at Level 1 within the Ranks charts of each Career....but at a starting Rank that all characters will begin at. So, Army always starts at Rank 0 (Private) but automatically gets trained in Gun Combat 1.......oh wait, they already do that!

However, they could make it something that universally applies to all Careers. A Scholar will automatically get Science 1, and a Rogue will always get Streetwise 1 for example.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Answer: Make it a roll rather than a choice so it's Level 1 but not selected.

Yes, it'll be a roll. But still a level 1 skill. Getting a 1 is always better than getting a 0.

Also worth noting that switching will fail at some point as the DM of -(number of careers) is there and not switching gives higher rank and thus better benefits so the rules discourage it as written.

But also and mostly - what's wrong with players getting what they want?

So which is it? Players should fill in their sheets as they see fit? Or leave things to random die rolls? If players want that level 1, what about all the other level 1s (even 2s) they'll want?

 

[anselyn]

Answer: Make it a roll rather than a choice so it's Level 1 but not selected.

Yes, it'll be a roll. But still a level 1 skill. Getting a 1 is always better than getting a 0.

Yes. it's getting a 1 which is better than a 0 - and is what you would get if you had not changed career because of an unlucky survival roll - or out of choice. The service skills tables, always available to those progressing in a career, give a skill +1 - and that (according to p16) skips you over level 0 so it's part of the standard character development.

Do you want characters/players punished for changing careers? I see it as an interesting twist in their tale. It shouldn't be punitive or disadvantageous.

Also worth noting that switching will fail at some point as the DM of -(number of careers) is there and not switching gives higher rank and thus better benefits so the rules discourage it as written.
But also and mostly - what's wrong with players getting what they want?

So which is it? Players should fill in their sheets as they see fit? Or leave things to random die rolls? If players want that level 1, what about all the other level 1s (even 2s) they'll want?

Congratulations on your simultaneous use of false dichotomy and reductio ad absurdum. I do apologise if my real point wasn't clear. I believe that that the rules should keep the players happy and satisfied while producing interesting characters. What do you think they are for? For keeping players in their place?

 

[Belisknar]

Another point about the basic training that I've been wondering.

When you get your 6 Level 0's in term 1 what if you already have one or two of those at level 0 from your starting skills lets say for example Athletics or Vac Suit?

Should these skills not increase to level 1 or are we just ignoring them because it's just 'Basic Training'?

The way I look at it you're not going to not get the extra training just because you already have a little skill with it. Moreover if you are in a career like the Navy or the the Army, They aren't going to let you not do it.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Should these skills not increase to level 1 or are we just ignoring them because it's just 'Basic Training'?

I good with it as is. If you have the skill (at 0 or any other level) it does not go up. Basic training is to make sure you know, well, the basics.

 

[grauenwolf]

When you get your 6 Level 0's in term 1 what if you already have one or two of those at level 0 from your starting skills lets say for example Athletics or Vac Suit?

Should these skills not increase to level 1 or are we just ignoring them because it's just 'Basic Training'?

Basic Training represents a few weeks of "boot camp" or "new employee orientation". Hence the reason you only get level 0. It isn't in depth training, so for a lot of new hires it is information that they already know.

If you are switching careers, your new employer will generally assume that you already know this kind of stuff and won't put you through the full process. In the real world this is often called an "experienced hire" and skipping the basics may, or may not, be a good thing depending on what you actually know.

So thematically the basic training rules make sense to me.

 

[grauenwolf]

Compared to six Level 0 skills as basic training in a first career, one picked Level 0 skill in subsequent careers seems harsh. I'd make that one Level 1 skill in further basic trainings.

I don't like that basic training gives real skill points, but there is still the problem that you can have someone in a career for 4 terms and still now know the basics. How about this for a rule change:

Basic Training, First Career: All service skills at level 0
Basic Training, Subsequent Careers: One service skills at level 0 per term

This way you eventually fill out the gaps in your knowledge.

 

[anselyn]

Basic Training represents a few weeks of "boot camp" or "new employee orientation". Hence the reason you only get level 0. It isn't in depth training, so for a lot of new hires it is information that they already know.

OK. So that's the first few weeks of the four year term if you want to be literally simulationist about Basic Training as it's known to us. But ...

What about the remaining 200 weeks?

I know people who's career strategy is:
* Get new job
* Learn new skills, improve CV
* Keep role for the honeymoon period, then
* Move on to a new challenge - every few years.

So - compared to this how come our heroic Travellers have brains that go to mush in a second career?

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Well, in addition to the 6 Basic Training skills, they get their normal Skill for that term and if they get promoted a second skill and an Event which could give them another skill.

So, for most of their terms, they get 1-3 skills, in that first term they get 1-3 skills plus all those Level-0 skills. Sounds like a honeymoon to me.

Also, just because you change jobs doesn't mean you change careers. You can be a broker at a dozen different firms in 8 years, but you still spent two terms as a Broker.

 

[anselyn]

Well, in addition to the 6 Basic Training skills, they get their normal Skill for that term and if they get promoted a second skill and an Event which could give them another skill.

So, for most of their terms, they get 1-3 skills, in that first term they get 1-3 skills plus all those Level-0 skills. Sounds like a honeymoon to me.

My point was about Basic Training in second careers. I agree that the first batch of six is a healthy amount. However, I think your interpretation may be wrong. The flow chart says:
"If this is first term of career, go through basic training, otherwise choose skill table and roll"

I take that "otherwise" to mean you get Basic Training but not the normal Skill for that term. I'm happy with your version for later careers (Basic Training: 1xSkill-0) AND 1 skill roll.

The text on p16 doesn't clarify this for me.
Skills and Training says "In each term you spend in a career, pick one of these tables and roll". That might be taken as an absolute instruction. However, the following paragraphs are effectively modifiers to this rule.

First: Skill Limits - which can effectively waste/lose your roll.

Second: Basic training:
For your first career only, you get all the skills listed in the Service Skills table at Level 0 as your basic training. For any subsequent careers, you may pick any one skill listed in the Service Skills table at Level 0 as your basic training.

Suggest clarification:
Basic training:
In addition to the usual term skill, you receive basic training during the first term of a career. For your first career only, you get all the skills listed in the Service Skills table at Level 0. For any subsequent careers, you may pick any one skill listed in the Service Skills table at Level 0 as your basic training.

Also, just because you change jobs doesn't mean you change careers. You can be a broker at a dozen different firms in 8 years, but you still spent two terms as a Broker.

Yes, you are right. Actually some of those moves I was considering would be lateral in the career and some would be promotions. That's all like assignments and advancement as modelled by Traveller.

 

[RajunCajun3025]

Well, in addition to the 6 Basic Training skills, they get their normal Skill for that term and if they get promoted a second skill and an Event which could give them another skill.


Do they? That's not stated clearly in the rules as I read them.

 

[-Daniel-]

Well, in addition to the 6 Basic Training skills, they get their normal Skill for that term and if they get promoted a second skill and an Event which could give them another skill.

Do they? That's not stated clearly in the rules as I read them.

Oh my, once again I have allowed my knowledge of past editions to taint how I read things. You are correct, as written the rules are not clear at all. Neither is the flow chart. And the two don't agree either. The check list in the 1st ed book makes it very clear what the path is, they need that in this book.

 

[grauenwolf]

What about the remaining 200 weeks?

Unfortunately they are probably going to spend 90% of that time either doing menial grunt work or just mindlessly repeating what they already know.

In the real world I typically work on one year contracts. The first month, maybe two, involves learning new things. The rest of the time I jealously watch the industry pass me by because we're locked into using stuff that existed when the project started.

And I'm considered lucky by my peers. A lot of my colleagues are trapped on 5 to 10 year old projects and have no opportunity to learn something new on the job. It is a wise few who know how and when to switch jobs in order to build their skill set.

 

[anselyn]

What about the remaining 200 weeks?

Unfortunately they are probably going to spend 90% of that time either doing menial grunt work or just mindlessly repeating what they already know.

In the real world I typically work on one year contracts. The first month, maybe two, involves learning new things. The rest of the time I jealously watch the industry pass me by because we're locked into using stuff that existed when the project started.

And I'm considered lucky by my peers. A lot of my colleagues are trapped on 5 to 10 year old projects and have no opportunity to learn something new on the job. It is a wise few who know how and when to switch jobs in order to build their skill set.

Well. Let's hope Traveller chargen is written to produce heroic characters then. Drudges and Depressants of the 35th Century isn't the game for me even if it accurately models an imaginary future.

Perhaps those wise few are the Travellers.

 

[grauenwolf]

Well. Let's hope Traveller chargen is written to produce heroic characters then. Drudges and Depressants of the 35th Century isn't the game for me even if it accurately models an imaginary future.

But that's part of the charm of Traveller: ordinary people in extraordinary situations.

If you want superheroes, just double or triple the number of skill rolls you get each term.

 

[anselyn]

Well. Let's hope Traveller chargen is written to produce heroic characters then. Drudges and Depressants of the 35th Century isn't the game for me even if it accurately models an imaginary future.

But that's part of the charm of Traveller: ordinary people in extraordinary situations.

Hmm. 1/12 people have noble titles and ~1% of workers [Citizen/workers] become Directors of companies. I think it's a mistake to think that the rules do or should produce ordinary people.