Bardiche - Superweapon?
- Thread starter bradius
- Start date
Character concept. When I was younger, I aimed at high damaging weapons, but now I choose the ones that fits with the kind of character I want to play at the moment, i.e. my Pirate would not brandish a bardiche...bradius said:
I don't think so, but you can easily tone it down if it suits you.bradius said:
A
Anonymous
Guest
"Is there any reason someone would not take this weapon?"
No shield? +4 or more to parry is pretty useful.
No shield? +4 or more to parry is pretty useful.
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Anonymous
Guest
Cuz if you wanna powergame, go back to D&D. an enchanted gauntlet can rule over bardiche any day.
You and your players should be using weapons appropriate for their races not just the one that deals the most damage.
A
Anonymous
Guest
bradius said:
Greatsword: Twice as likely to do a critical hit, but a crit still does enough damage to reliably take most opponents out of the fight. Can be bought as an Akbitanan weapon.
Tulwar: As greatsword, but even more likely to critical.
Pollaxe: More effective against heavily armoured opponents, particularly if the wielder's Strength is not especially high.
Broadsword and shortsword, or broadsword and poniard: More effective against large numbers of individually easy-to-kill unarmoured opponents. Also, you could pass for an ordinary man-at-arms-about-town, rather than looking like a maniac with a huge axe. Great for pirates and thieves, since sneak attack damage will benefit from hitting with additional attacks.
Broadsword and axe: As for broadsword and shortsword, but you can throw the axe if you need to.
Bill: Greater versatility, can make trip attacks, set against a charge.
Paired Zhaibar knives: More raw damage than any other weapon combination.
Broadsword and large shield: Enemies miss you 20% more often.
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Anonymous
Guest
Sorry to disturb, but I ran the Kovag-Re scenario and I witnessed one cornered -and enraged- barbarian use his bardiche to smash one of the stones to dust! He got lucky with the damage dice, but I think it was not what Mongoose thought players would do to save the day...
On the other hand, one of the main NPCs, armed only with some common sword was ruthlessly killed without being able to make them a scratch.
So I must agree with Bradius, the bardiche is a superweapon in terms of sheer damage, though as others have pointed it is not perfect and there would be situations where it would be more cunning to use another weapon for diverse reasons as its bulkiness or low endurance. In fact, the game has been balanced so a skillful character can be highly dangerous even when armed with a knife.
That said, after that odd circumstance in the Kovag-Re scenario, I think it should be ruled that any weapon with a low Hardness rating can break on hitting a target with a high Damage Reduction -that is, without being sundered, as when using a Fate Point to make a Powerful Blow.
This would give steel bladed weapons a definitive edge over shafted weapons.
What do you think?
On the other hand, one of the main NPCs, armed only with some common sword was ruthlessly killed without being able to make them a scratch.
So I must agree with Bradius, the bardiche is a superweapon in terms of sheer damage, though as others have pointed it is not perfect and there would be situations where it would be more cunning to use another weapon for diverse reasons as its bulkiness or low endurance. In fact, the game has been balanced so a skillful character can be highly dangerous even when armed with a knife.
That said, after that odd circumstance in the Kovag-Re scenario, I think it should be ruled that any weapon with a low Hardness rating can break on hitting a target with a high Damage Reduction -that is, without being sundered, as when using a Fate Point to make a Powerful Blow.
This would give steel bladed weapons a definitive edge over shafted weapons.
What do you think?
Anonymous said:
Here's my first take at this house rule: If a weapon hits but does not penetrate DR and the armor's DR is twice the weapon's hardness, that weapon will break. Alternately, the damage is applied to the weapon - it becomes damaged and may or may not break, depending on the strength of the blow.
Thoughts? Comments? Flames? Don't be shy!
I agree in principle, Bombaatu. Weapon breakage needs to be worked into the rules better than it is currently. As it stands, these are the only ways to break a weapon:
I don't have a good idea for a game mechanic at this point, but I'll post one if that changes. In the mean time, I'll watch what happens in this discussion. One request: whatever you do to make weapons more temporary, do the same thing to shields. They aren't supposed to last long.
- Use a primitive weapon and fail to push damage through an opponent's DR
- Score a Mighty Blow
- Be the victim of a Sunder attack or something similar
I don't have a good idea for a game mechanic at this point, but I'll post one if that changes. In the mean time, I'll watch what happens in this discussion. One request: whatever you do to make weapons more temporary, do the same thing to shields. They aren't supposed to last long.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hi again,
I think we could rule that whenever a weapon strikes at some target and its total AP isn't enough to overcome the DR of such a target there is a chance equal to (Damage Reduction-Weapon Hardness)x5 that the weapon will suffer the same damage it inflicts on the foe.
While I like Bombaatu idea, it excludes the possibility of a wepon sustaining damage whenever it hurts the foe.
In the Kovag-Re example, the bardiche would have about 40% of breaking upon hitting one magical stone, what means that most likely the barbarian would have to run -while protecting himself with the remnants of the weapon in a desperate, howardian way. Should have thought of something like that when I ran the scenario.
Against a warrior donning the best armor available (DR 12), a bardiche (Hardness 7) would have (12-7)x5=25% of breaking upon impact, what I think is not excesive.
Shields could sustain some damage when you avoid being hit BECAUSE OF the shield's DV bonus. What about half of this damage you avoid because of using the shield? Shield Hardness would reduce this damage, of course. I don't want Sundering to become pointless, just avoid that one barbarian hitting a stone or a dragon attacking a shielded warrior fail to damage weapon/shield/whatever combat gear which is badly punished.
However, I dislike slowing gameplay with so many rules, so I would only use this house rules whenever I find they suit the mood of the scene.
Hope this helps.
I think we could rule that whenever a weapon strikes at some target and its total AP isn't enough to overcome the DR of such a target there is a chance equal to (Damage Reduction-Weapon Hardness)x5 that the weapon will suffer the same damage it inflicts on the foe.
While I like Bombaatu idea, it excludes the possibility of a wepon sustaining damage whenever it hurts the foe.
In the Kovag-Re example, the bardiche would have about 40% of breaking upon hitting one magical stone, what means that most likely the barbarian would have to run -while protecting himself with the remnants of the weapon in a desperate, howardian way. Should have thought of something like that when I ran the scenario.
Against a warrior donning the best armor available (DR 12), a bardiche (Hardness 7) would have (12-7)x5=25% of breaking upon impact, what I think is not excesive.
Shields could sustain some damage when you avoid being hit BECAUSE OF the shield's DV bonus. What about half of this damage you avoid because of using the shield? Shield Hardness would reduce this damage, of course. I don't want Sundering to become pointless, just avoid that one barbarian hitting a stone or a dragon attacking a shielded warrior fail to damage weapon/shield/whatever combat gear which is badly punished.
However, I dislike slowing gameplay with so many rules, so I would only use this house rules whenever I find they suit the mood of the scene.
Hope this helps.
sbarrie
Mongoose
I think if a weapon strikes an object (not sundering, just attacking a stationary item) and fails to break that object, it should inflict damage to itself equal to the damage it did to the object. Nice and simple. Common sense exceptions could be made for axes against wood or picks against stone.
If you want lots of shattered weapons, use Sundering Parry whenever possible. It's an easy maneuver even a low level Soldier can aquire, with great dividends against hafted weapons.
Maybe a new maneuver could let you sacrifrice a shield or off-hand weapon to reduce damage to yourself?
If you want lots of shattered weapons, use Sundering Parry whenever possible. It's an easy maneuver even a low level Soldier can aquire, with great dividends against hafted weapons.
Maybe a new maneuver could let you sacrifrice a shield or off-hand weapon to reduce damage to yourself?
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Anonymous
Guest
The changes are to make combat a bit more deadly. Hence the higher values, and the fact that a good hit from most will spell death to many inexperienced characters.
On the other hand, once you've fought a few enemies with DR of 10 or higher you'll appreciate that the 2d10 is not out of line. You might as well throw your broadsword, battleaxe and Bossonian longbow away once you see guys in heavy armor. I know I'm going to keep a bardiche or bill on my horse from now on, just in case.
Truckle the Uncivil
Mongoose
I think the Bardiche's performance is very nice indeed, but the weapon should be a bit more expensive.
Compare the Bardiche to the Greatsword:
- same damage
- Martial weapon vs. Exotic weapon
- different crit range
- AP 5 vs. 4
- hardness 7 vs. 10
- cost 8sp vs. 200sp
That really sounds an excellent deal to me. Okay, a Greatsword has the higher coolness factor, but especially for low-level chars the Bardiche looks like a must-have to me.
However, I think such massive axes also need quite a bit of both metal and skill to forge, so they could really be several times more expensive. But depending on the cash-flow in your campaigns, that might be just a minor detail.
Compare the Bardiche to the Greatsword:
- same damage
- Martial weapon vs. Exotic weapon
- different crit range
- AP 5 vs. 4
- hardness 7 vs. 10
- cost 8sp vs. 200sp
That really sounds an excellent deal to me. Okay, a Greatsword has the higher coolness factor, but especially for low-level chars the Bardiche looks like a must-have to me.
However, I think such massive axes also need quite a bit of both metal and skill to forge, so they could really be several times more expensive. But depending on the cash-flow in your campaigns, that might be just a minor detail.
Sutek
Mongoose
Really, the hardness of a Greatsword should be higher. A bardich isn't as crafted historically and is usually almost raw, hammered iron; quite crude in comparison to a well forged sword.
I also should have though a 2d8 with a x3 Crit, Threat 20, would have been just fine instead of the 2d10. Way it is now, a character with no STR bonus getting a crit with a Bardiche can still amass a whopping 6 to 60 points of damage. Is that really necessary?
I would probably apply a house rule that limits wielding weapons based on STR versus max base damage. A character of STR 8 could easily use a Shortsword, but you'd need to be STR 20 to use a Greatsword or Bardiche. I'd also apply a negative mod to hit based on the differntial, so that if you were STR 15 trying to use a Greatsword then you'd be at a -5 to all attacks.
I also should have though a 2d8 with a x3 Crit, Threat 20, would have been just fine instead of the 2d10. Way it is now, a character with no STR bonus getting a crit with a Bardiche can still amass a whopping 6 to 60 points of damage. Is that really necessary?
I would probably apply a house rule that limits wielding weapons based on STR versus max base damage. A character of STR 8 could easily use a Shortsword, but you'd need to be STR 20 to use a Greatsword or Bardiche. I'd also apply a negative mod to hit based on the differntial, so that if you were STR 15 trying to use a Greatsword then you'd be at a -5 to all attacks.
Truckle the Uncivil
Mongoose
Uh-uh. Reality check. I can wield a Greatsword myself, and I'm not particularly strong. To give a stat, I have to work out some more to master the new 55 lbs longbow I recently bought. From that, and from looking at the carrying capacity chart (and my hiking experiences), I'd deduce that I would be about Str 12 in game terms.
In a swordfight, I just wouldn't make so much damage on a hit, but I'm a quite decent swordsman and can hit well enough (though for myself I prefer the Bastard Sword).
In a swordfight, I just wouldn't make so much damage on a hit, but I'm a quite decent swordsman and can hit well enough (though for myself I prefer the Bastard Sword).
Odovacar's Ghost
Mongoose
I've never lifted a 2-handed sword. But, those long swords are quite heavy, for prolonged use.
I've also have a long bow. Been in the family for 3 generations. It isn't 55 lbs, but it does have a 55lb pull. Though, I'm sure my other bow would not count as a medieval weapon. Since it is a pulley-based compound bow.
I've also have a long bow. Been in the family for 3 generations. It isn't 55 lbs, but it does have a 55lb pull. Though, I'm sure my other bow would not count as a medieval weapon. Since it is a pulley-based compound bow.
