Arming your Scout Type S Ship
- Thread starter dragonladytoo
- Start date
Mithras said:rust has a point about the danger of equipping civillian vessels. I may rethink the policy of my Human Republic before the players get their first ship But then again, starship combat is fun ...
Seems sane and rational - but then real life very often isn't!
Quick search on this quite topical topic - according to this site the U.N. Laws of the Sea permit armed civilian ships.
And from here -
Of course, I expect various countries have laws relating to weapons possession within their 'international waters'.
In a Traveller setting one could picture various restriction levels - from range limits, to high-port only for armed ships and special dispensation requirements, or pre-dock boarding requirements and weapons lockout while docked/landed.
rust said:I think the term "armed ships" is a bit misleading in this case. What is
meant is that the personnel on board of civilian ships may be armed,
to arm the ship itself with guns or missiles would be something quite
different.
Ooops - quite true! I didn't spend much time on this - and regardless of what the U.N. declares regarding armed crews, I'm sure once in territorial waters and especially at port things are quite different...dragonlady
Mongoose
BP said:
I could see the system boats making scans or inspections of your ship part of normal procedure, including ensuring that you have your ship weapons locked down, but unfortunately in the Spinward marches, piracy is a common occurance, so while I see that you wouldn't be running around with a 1000 ton raider ship, an armed scout will not make you a threat to most civilized systems, but might be enough to slow down the randamn pirate that thinks you are an easy mark.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Ship weapons licenses make just as much sense as personal weapons licenses. Require any armed ship to have a Weapons License. It still allows armament for defense but gives the Imperium some control over who buys the weapons.
Customs inspections would naturally include inspections of these licenses. Also, the SPA might restrict armed ships to certain approach vectors or orbits and a planet probably has the right to restrict landing of any armed ships (not sure on that one though since the Starport is Imperial Property, not planetary property but the ship has to pass through the atmosphere to get to the Downport and the Atmosphere IS planetary property).
I could see high law level societies restricting armed ships to the Highport though. Sounds like a reasonable compromise with the Imperium... It could even vary depending on the exact wording in a planet's Imperial Charter.
Customs inspections would naturally include inspections of these licenses. Also, the SPA might restrict armed ships to certain approach vectors or orbits and a planet probably has the right to restrict landing of any armed ships (not sure on that one though since the Starport is Imperial Property, not planetary property but the ship has to pass through the atmosphere to get to the Downport and the Atmosphere IS planetary property).
I could see high law level societies restricting armed ships to the Highport though. Sounds like a reasonable compromise with the Imperium... It could even vary depending on the exact wording in a planet's Imperial Charter.
One might consider looking at it from the view of merchants through the early 1800s, where it was not uncommon for ships to mount some sort of cannon armament. As a general rule of thumb, merchanters aren't going to spend the money required to maintain a heavily armed ship - unless they are getting paid extra for it. Merchants are about trade, and armaments are a necessary expense in some places, but an expense nonetheless. They are going to try to run as cheap as possible in order to make money.
Smaller ships like a free trader need to do more speculative cargo, which means they are probably going to not be plying the same trade routes as the bigger ships will. And they can't compete economically against 10,000 ton freighters hauling bulk cargo. So that means they are going to be on the edge, willing to take cargos to smaller planets with not so robust protection. So I would expect those types of ships to be at least somewhat armed. Probably at least a single turret in each of their hardpoints, just to ensure one hit doesn't knock out their single weapons system.
But you also probably aren't going to see a 1000 ton bulk freighter with 10 hard points and triple turrets mounted on every one. So some sort of common sense should prevail.
Players may encounter systems that have extremely high law levels, in which the system authorities do not allow armed ships within a specific range (say 250,000km) of a planet or installation. Since ships can be armed per Imperial law, a system of this type would most likely set up a station that ships would have to dock at to unload cargo and passengers whose destination was the system itself. That would satisfy Imperial law as well as the laws of the system. I don't think the Imperium would allow system authorities to prohibit all starships in their system from being armed.
Smaller ships like a free trader need to do more speculative cargo, which means they are probably going to not be plying the same trade routes as the bigger ships will. And they can't compete economically against 10,000 ton freighters hauling bulk cargo. So that means they are going to be on the edge, willing to take cargos to smaller planets with not so robust protection. So I would expect those types of ships to be at least somewhat armed. Probably at least a single turret in each of their hardpoints, just to ensure one hit doesn't knock out their single weapons system.
But you also probably aren't going to see a 1000 ton bulk freighter with 10 hard points and triple turrets mounted on every one. So some sort of common sense should prevail.
Players may encounter systems that have extremely high law levels, in which the system authorities do not allow armed ships within a specific range (say 250,000km) of a planet or installation. Since ships can be armed per Imperial law, a system of this type would most likely set up a station that ships would have to dock at to unload cargo and passengers whose destination was the system itself. That would satisfy Imperial law as well as the laws of the system. I don't think the Imperium would allow system authorities to prohibit all starships in their system from being armed.
It would not work in my setting, where there is no authority able to issueRikki Tikki Traveller said:
a weapons license that would be acceptable to all the planetary govern-
ments of the region - the government of Misaki would not care whether a
free trader approaching the planet has a license from the government of
Hem, it would treat him as an armed intruder.
However, once there is an event that makes arming spaceships reason-
able, this could make a nice hook for a diplomatic adventure, a visit to the
neighbouring colonies to negotiate an agreement to mutually accept such
weapons licenses (and thereby to make life a little more difficult for all of
the "outsiders", who have to continue with unarmed ships ...).
Somebody said:rust said:I think the term "armed ships" is a bit misleading in this case. What is
meant is that the personnel on board of civilian ships may be armed,
to arm the ship itself with guns or missiles would be something quite
different.
OTOH some "man portable" weapons of today pack more punch than Blackbeards whole broadside. A Carl Gustav can put a serious dent in a 1000tons warship and can be lugged by one man (I did, BW calls it "Schwere Panzerfaust")
Sure, depending on the armor. Bonded superdense armor though would probably barely show the scratch. It's unfortunate we can't make any collapsed metal armor to test such a theory.
Actually, Scout ships are easy targets for pirates, especially when unarmed. One of the purposes of a scout ship is as a courier. Small cargo of value to someone. Or, how about a scout returning from a survey mission. The data collected might be of great value to a corporation who is looking for an edge. How about the fact that it would be easily parted and sold as parts.BP said:A scout ship's primary purpose is to get you from point A to point B via space!
A scout ship is not really a combatant. Nor is it likely to be a pirate target, so armament is really not neccessary (except maybe to threaten civilians).
If they absolutely must have a weapon - a single mount and missile rack might be within budget. Its about MCr 1 new, but High Guard has rules (pg 52) about discounts for older tech and second-hand outdated tech (Single/Missle are TL 7/6) - where outdated is +3 TL so on a TL 11 world they might pickup the turret and missile rack for Cr 95,000 from a scrapyard (add a ton of spare parts for Cr 10,000 and some skill).
But really, just equip it with enough food and fuel - and a mission!
Lots of reasons for a pirate to pick on a scout ship
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Active duty scouts are going to be armed. It is the surplus scouts that have had the weapons removed (but not the turrets or Fire Control equipment interestingly enough).
Getting weapons for a detached scout figured heavily in the initial adventures I played in involving a character who rolled one mustering out. Back when I had time and a group to play Traveller with that is. 
We usually got a laser (preferably beam) first. That way we didn't have to count ammo. Then the second turret slot was either missile or sandcaster when we could afford it.
We usually got a laser (preferably beam) first. That way we didn't have to count ammo. Then the second turret slot was either missile or sandcaster when we could afford it.
The Traveller universe has a good 200-ton jump-2 ship in the form of the type A2 Far Trader. It's always been a popular choice in my campaigns because my players liked the speed and flexibility that jump-2 offers but wanted something bigger than a type S - I guess the same idea you had. Give it a larger manoeuvre drive to keep up with the type S and maybe an extra turret, and you've got your expanded courier. IMTU the Scouts themselves use a fair number of A2s both stock and modified for various purposes.Jame Rowe said:
