Aquilonia: Rules and laws of the land?

[VincentDarlage]

VD, your speaking of a society in which there is no corruption, or wrong doing.... and that has never existed. Even people defined by honor and allegiance, which would be a ideological society, would have rules to support when a person honor is challanged, or questioned...

No, that is not what I am talking about at all. My reference to A Game of Thrones should prove that.

We are talking about societies where very few people knew how to read, so a written law was worthless.

If you want a written body of law for Aquilonia, then write one. Here is a reference for you: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/560-975dooms.html

 

[Raven Blackwell]

VD, your speaking of a society in which there is no corruption, or wrong doing.... and that has never existed. Even people defined by honor and allegiance, which would be a ideological society, would have rules to support when a person honor is challanged, or questioned...

The law of Hyboria is this- whatever you can and choose to enforce. Nobles have troops and thus can enforce any law they wish at any time against mere commoners. Nobles with more troops can enforce their law over those with less troops. Kings usually have the most troops- that's why they're kings. If they hve the good will of the people like Conan there's a little more pull for them but not much. If nobles dispute what the law is beween them they have wars. It's a simple as that.

All political power comes from the edge of a sword.....8)

 

[VincentDarlage]

All political power comes from the edge of a sword.....8)

Well said!

 

[DasClay]

Hey im not saying lets draw up a constitution, im just saying It would be nice to have some basic guidelines. VD you always get pissed, and say well if you dont like something write it. I enjoy your work first of all, and Ive always said that, second, every gaming group out there has house rules, so you saying that isnt helping. I was just asking for some input, not saying write a chapter on rules and laws of the land for me...
My apologizes

 

[Mark Dunder]

All of you are correct in my estimation (I don't like IMHO, I'm rarely humble). Law has to be backed up by the force of arms, and tradition, in a society where few people can read or write, would have to be considered. Still, someone will eventually write down the laws, if for no other reason than to list the punishments for that type of crime. Punishment seems to be written down more often than the sort of crime that would warrant such punishment.

IME (that don't look right, I better pick something else).

 

[VincentDarlage]

All of you are correct in my estimation (I don't like IMHO, I'm rarely humble). Law has to be backed up by the force of arms, and tradition, in a society where few people can read or write, would have to be considered. Still, someone will eventually write down the laws, if for no other reason than to list the punishments for that type of crime. Punishment seems to be written down more often than the sort of crime that would warrant such punishment.

Often the decrees of a judge, lord or king are written down and stored.

IME (that don't look right, I better pick something else).

IMO

 

[VincentDarlage]

Hey im not saying lets draw up a constitution, im just saying It would be nice to have some basic guidelines. VD you always get pissed, and say well if you dont like something write it. I enjoy your work first of all, and Ive always said that, second, every gaming group out there has house rules, so you saying that isnt helping. I was just asking for some input, not saying write a chapter on rules and laws of the land for me...
My apologizes

I am not pissed, just a little frustrated at the insistence on a written law when many organized societies existed without them. If the society is largely illiterate, then having a written law would be worthless - a judge or lord who might be able to read (and as often as not they couldn't) could declare that a piece of paper says anything he wants it to say. If the defendents could not read, who would argue with his decree?

People are placing a modern mindset on an ancient, fictional people. Law boils down to knowing right from wrong, honour from dishonour, and knowing what one can get away with and what one cannot get away with - often because of force of arms.

We are talking about societies who have trial by combat (or trial by ordeal) as often as trial by evidence - the winner of the combat must be the truthful one, else the gods would not have allowed him to win.

Out of curiosity, why do you want a comprehensive list of laws for Aquilonia?

 

[Mark Dunder]

People are placing a modern mindset on an ancient, fictional people. Law boils down to knowing right from wrong, honour from dishonour, and knowing what one can get away with and what one cannot get away with - often because of force of arms.

Decrees are somewhat like case law. But any of you attorneys can jump in on that, and clear this right up. Right?

The force of arms may make you right,
The Law may force you to dishonour,
Getting away with it requires flight,
From ancient ways you have to honour.

Sorry, sometimes I just can't help myself. IMHDWO.

 

[Castel]

If nobles dispute what the law is beween them they have wars.

That means that we all would be at war rigth? lol

Look, there are laws that are unquestionable, like "trying to kill the king" is ilegal, but like I said before in these times, laws are not static and really depend on "who" you are, and "where" you are and most important "who do you know".

"If you want some real justice, you will have to go do it yourself."

Of course there are written Laws of the land, but these change so much from place to place, and time to time that it would be very dificult to actually writte them as a static document to be used in the hyboria world.

Well i must agree that there is a need for a guidance line in the ways of how to legislate over a kingdom.
Maybe some fan, lawyer or expert in ancient justice with a good "Conan" knowledge could propose something as guide for hyborian laws.

For me, half the fun is doing these social things... but i´m not an "expert" neither in conan nor in ancient law to propose anything like this.

For me, one of the good examples of "Justice" in hyborian times can be taken from medieval Knights, that when deciding problems between them, they would battle, and the one that survived this battle would be the one that god decided to be the rigth about that matter...

For "commoners" in Aquilonia there is simply not much "justice" for them...

 

[Mark Dunder]

For me, one of the good examples of "Justice" in hyborian times can be taken from medieval Knights, that when deciding problems between them, they would battle, and the one that survived this battle would be the one that god decided to be the rigth about that matter...

Would that be "Right by Might" or "Might is Right?"

Gotta make it a little simple for us commoners.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

All political power comes from the edge of a sword.....8)

Well said!

Actually Chairman Mao said it first....you can thank him. 8)

Nethertheless the point stands- no matter what is written down in the end it always boils down to authority being enforced with force. Tradition and law were created to present some kind of order to prevent needless conflicts- but that won't happen in Aquilonia. It'll be wiped out by the Picts and internal conflicts before that point. So if there were andy law books written by that time Gorm used them to wipe himself after a big meal.....

Nemedia and Argos on the other hand looks to have a higher level of education as a whole and a greater chance of possessign a written codex of law. Vendhya[sp] and Khitan each have a long unborken line of tradition that may also have developed a code of law.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

If nobles dispute what the law is beween them they have wars.

That means that we all would be at war rigth? lol

Well, there is at least one war at all times in the Hyborian world- and in our own, so- yes, you are right.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Would that be "Right by Might" or "Might is Right?"

Gotta make it a little simple for us commoners.

How about this- "Do as I tell you peasant or my men will hold you and your wife down and I will take your daughter by force while you watch, take her as my body-slave and sell you both to foreign slavery to pay debts you owe me that I'll just create on the spot?"

That clear enough on the rights of nobility? 8)

 

[Mark Dunder]

And then my cousin, your maid, who just happens to have syphilis. Leaves you a feeble minded screeming lunitic, that your guards kill in heartfelt pity.

There are ways to make you cry, even if you are a horribly maladjusted inbred noble.

 

[GregLynch]

Nemedia and Argos on the other hand looks to have a higher level of education as a whole and a greater chance of possessign a written codex of law. Vendhya[sp] and Khitan each have a long unborken line of tradition that may also have developed a code of law.

I wrote laws for Messantia for several reasons, and that's one of them. Also, when you've got a major trading hub filled with people from around the world, you want something a little more concrete than whatever Nobleman X feels like doing today - you certainly don't want people to be afraid to come to your trading city. As for Argos itself, well, it's a feudal kingdom. I imagine that so long as Milo's various nobles still swear him fealty and send him money, he lets them do as they wish with the law in their own territories. He might, however, get cranky if any of them start pulling an Elizabeth Bathory, or decide to take up a new hobby of killing 25 peasants a day for sport - you'd run out of peasants, after all, and then who would do the actual work?

 

[Raven Blackwell]

And then my cousin, your maid, who just happens to have syphilis. Leaves you a feeble minded screeming lunitic, that your guards kill in heartfelt pity.

There are ways to make you cry, even if you are a horribly maladjusted inbred noble.

So what you are saying is that we should create a codex of law because your cousin sleeps around with men of dubious virtue? 8)

 

[Mark Dunder]

So what you are saying is that we should create a codex of law because your cousin sleeps around with men of dubious virtue?

Can Assassination by Syphilis be legalized?

And I want to make something perfectly clear; I miss my cousin a lot.

 

[Castel]

I´m sorry for your loss, but then siffilis is a natural death not murderer...

Well probably the noble would be smart and use protection... if you know what i mean.

But nobles were not imune to the law, there was the moral law, and if this was seen by an priest he would probably have the noble "burn alive" (thinking in the mitran world), or ask for a bigger donation...

 

[Mark Dunder]

She's not dead yet, she just went on a trip to Stygia. Conan's a little too busy building a new library, but someone has got to do something about those pesky Necromancers!

 

[Castel]

Well then she will soon be dead, she had more chances with siffilis...

3 questions, what is her "conan" race, what is her class and where did she get siffilis? (The last time i checked it happeard in Napolionic times)

And why is Conan building a new library, whats wrong with the old one?
He should hire Mongoose to print the books...

Back to the real world... or not...

Slaves had no rights,Commoners did not have much rights, nobles and priests had some, The king was "THE" law.

The thing that got me wonder was how did the laws affect the common adventurer...