Announcing: The Open Playtest!
- Thread starter Se Chris
- Start date
Ok just quickly scanned the two pages involved and I see what you mean.
Its just my personal feeling but I think based on the previous editions of Traveller it should be just 3 rolls max on cash making super aged viable characters a lot more diifcult to create but I guess we'll just have to wait for clarifications from the powers that be.
How this works out with tables from multiple careers is still a matter for conjecture I guess.
Digressing a little just wanted to add how much I am looking forward to this version have traveller having owned the game in all of its incarnations in the past 25 years or so, this one has a rules system that feels like traveller (t20 and hero didn't cut it for me being to clunky - Traveller should be fast and furious). No offence intended to the publishers but I hope its proofed well and doesn't end up like MT or T4.
Regards.
J.
Its just my personal feeling but I think based on the previous editions of Traveller it should be just 3 rolls max on cash making super aged viable characters a lot more diifcult to create but I guess we'll just have to wait for clarifications from the powers that be.
How this works out with tables from multiple careers is still a matter for conjecture I guess.
Digressing a little just wanted to add how much I am looking forward to this version have traveller having owned the game in all of its incarnations in the past 25 years or so, this one has a rules system that feels like traveller (t20 and hero didn't cut it for me being to clunky - Traveller should be fast and furious). No offence intended to the publishers but I hope its proofed well and doesn't end up like MT or T4.
Regards.
J.
I tried running up a range of characters. Overall I like the Chargen system and can see how it would work really well in a group. Whilst it's too early for me to say how easy it is for a character to go through, there are a few issues:
1) The Aging Table does not say whether or not it is 2d6 or 1d6. 1d6 results in rapid death by aging given the DMs (a minimum of -4 at 34), so I am hoping it is 2d6. Otherwise, on average, characters will lose 6-9 points by aged 42 ::eurgh::!! and on average 14 by age 46, potentially a lot more. That's HALF to three quarters their physical skills...
2) I can't see any rules on having multiple TERMS in the same career. As written, especially with the Generation Checklist, there is nothing to state that you can continue in the same career without enlisting all over again (and suffering the DMs as a result). It seems to be assumed, unless someone can point them out...
3) If the Draft can only be taken once, or multiple times, it might need to be explicitly stated. As is, if you fail applying for a career it seems you can volunteer for the draft multiple times.
4) The Generation Checklist is broken (I went through it step by step and got thoroughly confused). You cannot take multiple terms in the same career (step 11) except if you have a mishap (step 6.c), which conflicts with the rules stated elsewhere that a mishap drives you from that career. If you have to keep re-enlisting then the vast majority of characters will not last many terms (so where do the character generals come from? :wink: ) Also, under 6.c, it says to optionally establish a connection with another PC but this should only apply to Events, afaics.
I'll get some sample characters up...
1) The Aging Table does not say whether or not it is 2d6 or 1d6. 1d6 results in rapid death by aging given the DMs (a minimum of -4 at 34), so I am hoping it is 2d6. Otherwise, on average, characters will lose 6-9 points by aged 42 ::eurgh::!! and on average 14 by age 46, potentially a lot more. That's HALF to three quarters their physical skills...
2) I can't see any rules on having multiple TERMS in the same career. As written, especially with the Generation Checklist, there is nothing to state that you can continue in the same career without enlisting all over again (and suffering the DMs as a result). It seems to be assumed, unless someone can point them out...
3) If the Draft can only be taken once, or multiple times, it might need to be explicitly stated. As is, if you fail applying for a career it seems you can volunteer for the draft multiple times.
4) The Generation Checklist is broken (I went through it step by step and got thoroughly confused). You cannot take multiple terms in the same career (step 11) except if you have a mishap (step 6.c), which conflicts with the rules stated elsewhere that a mishap drives you from that career. If you have to keep re-enlisting then the vast majority of characters will not last many terms (so where do the character generals come from? :wink: ) Also, under 6.c, it says to optionally establish a connection with another PC but this should only apply to Events, afaics.
I'll get some sample characters up...
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
Task Resolution
Another thing that occurs to me is a house rule that we always use in practice, and I think should be encouraged in the rules:
Automatic successes, based upon logical character actions.
For example, if a character with a 9 Int and Mechanical skill of 2, tries to repair a broken down car, that would normally roll 5+ to succeed (8-2-1=5).
However, if characters then also choose to spend a day testing it (+1DM), consults with experienced colleagues (+1DM), and read a manual specific to the car (+1), he can reduce the target to 2+ (= Automatic success).
I think, in non pressured situations, players should be encouraged to think along these lines, and only use the dice rolling in stressful situations.
Like I say, this is a typical rule used in most groups I know, but it would be nice to see it stated in the rules.
Another thing that occurs to me is a house rule that we always use in practice, and I think should be encouraged in the rules:
Automatic successes, based upon logical character actions.
For example, if a character with a 9 Int and Mechanical skill of 2, tries to repair a broken down car, that would normally roll 5+ to succeed (8-2-1=5).
However, if characters then also choose to spend a day testing it (+1DM), consults with experienced colleagues (+1DM), and read a manual specific to the car (+1), he can reduce the target to 2+ (= Automatic success).
I think, in non pressured situations, players should be encouraged to think along these lines, and only use the dice rolling in stressful situations.
Like I say, this is a typical rule used in most groups I know, but it would be nice to see it stated in the rules.
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
AKAramis said:
I think the Citizen breakdown is about right there actually. Clerk could indicate administration or the service industry, of course, and I think farmers have their place in a lot of sci-fi literature and movies (*cough* Skywalker*cough*).
I think the Wet Navy might be the sort of thing they would specify as a an Assignment in future publications.
The Psionicist career has yet to come in the psionics information yet to be written - but I'd have broken it down into Combat/Intelligence/Rogue myself.
TrippyHippy said:
Am I just imagining things or wasn't this precicely what was stated in rules anyway? Roll only in stressful situations or where timing/effect is important to know anyway. Routine tasks require no roll.
Dunno. Might be just my imagination but could swear there was something like that in the document...
Edit: Aha! Found it: Page 41. Doesn't this fulfil what you are looking for or did I misunderstand it?
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
Not really.
I'm suggesting a mechanism for calculating when an automatic success is achieved.
So it's not just saying: don't roll in non stressful environments, it's more about encouraging tasks to be resolved in a diceless system - based upon creating bonuses for doing things that would reliably bring the difficulty of a task down.
I'm suggesting a mechanism for calculating when an automatic success is achieved.
So it's not just saying: don't roll in non stressful environments, it's more about encouraging tasks to be resolved in a diceless system - based upon creating bonuses for doing things that would reliably bring the difficulty of a task down.
I concurr. But, since they don't specify a 2 is an autofail, that I found, any task with DM+6 total automatically succeeds, and if the DM is +5 or more excluding attributes, it's always 1 time increment and 6 success levels.TrippyHippy said:
One thing that hit me last night: Damage should probably not be limited to success level 6...
Hiya, first time post, and I really like what I'm seeing in this new edition of Traveller. I do have some clarification requests, though.
*Does service coverage of the cost of medical recovery apply if the character got the injury through a Mishap and thus has to leave the career? I imagine no, but it isn't clearly stated and that turns Mishaps into a double-whammy.
Also, I suggest that the cost for attribute recovery be raised from 2,000 to 5,000 per point, still low enough to be tempting but high enough to make the decision matter. The Scout I rolled was barely inconvenienced by the 6,000 he paid to get his 3 Str points back, and as it was inflicted through Mishap I didn't even count service coverage of the cost.
*Is a character still assumed to have zero ratincs in all related sub-skills if their primary sub-skill is also at zero?
*The group skill packages aren't additive, correct? A charcter with Pilot 2 cannot raise it to Pilot 3 by choosing it from the list. Rather, if nobody in the group has the skills, someone gets them at the stated level?
*Does service coverage of the cost of medical recovery apply if the character got the injury through a Mishap and thus has to leave the career? I imagine no, but it isn't clearly stated and that turns Mishaps into a double-whammy.
Also, I suggest that the cost for attribute recovery be raised from 2,000 to 5,000 per point, still low enough to be tempting but high enough to make the decision matter. The Scout I rolled was barely inconvenienced by the 6,000 he paid to get his 3 Str points back, and as it was inflicted through Mishap I didn't even count service coverage of the cost.
*Is a character still assumed to have zero ratincs in all related sub-skills if their primary sub-skill is also at zero?
*The group skill packages aren't additive, correct? A charcter with Pilot 2 cannot raise it to Pilot 3 by choosing it from the list. Rather, if nobody in the group has the skills, someone gets them at the stated level?
E.T.Smith said:
AS the tables read, scouts get 0% coverage anyway.
Given the skill acquisition guidelines on CG chapter's page 3
Traveller PTDraft 1.0 CGen p3 said:
Since the list of skills in the packages are at level 1, that means that either you pick one you don't have at 1+, or you get one at level 1 whether it was at level 0 or not held at all prior.
Some more observations after generating several characters and another read through...
Background Skills. Not many choices here, and has been mentioned elsewhere, there's no earth-like environment. You can also theoretically make a character from a primitive vacuum world, which seems wrong. I suggest building a matrix to create random planets, starting with TL.
Drifters and the Draft. On pg 4, "If you fail to qualify for any career, you have two options." This could be interpreted to mean that you may attempt to qualify for multiple careers before falling back on Drift or Draft. I concur with other posters that you should only be able to choose the draft once, and this should be explicitly stated. I also think you should have the option of choosing not to serve another term at this point and finishing your character. If I've served a few terms in the army, then try to become an agent but fail my qualification roll, do I really need to serve a term as a drifter before finishing my character?
Career Changes Can I change specialties in a career without requalifying? If so, how does this affect my rank? Can I change specialities in a career if I do requalify, or can I only try each career once? Does it make a difference if I mustered out voluntarily or suffered a mishap? The answer might be different for different careers.
Drifters The drifter career is pretty brutal - you end up here because you were too unlucky to get into something else, and then you have a 9+ survival roll. Thus most characters will fail their survival roll, suffer a mishap, and have further penalties (-1DM for previous career) on their next term. I suggest lowering the survival requirement for drifters, and putting more negative events on the events table. This at least gives characters who end up drifters a chance to pick up a few more skills, instead of getting kicked while they're down.
Military careers Like others, I find it odd that all members of the military are either privates or officers. It's also strange the Leadership doesn't appear on the Navy or Marine skill tables anywhere - the only way to gain it is through promotion or events. I suggest changing the Advanced Education column requirement to (Rank 3+) or something (or maybe Rank X+ OR Edu Y+), then populate it with skills like Leadership, Tactics, Admin, etc. Actually, making the Advanced Education table require rank X instead of Edu might be good for all careers.
Personal Development I think every career ought to offer the stat necessary for advancement under Personal Development, but there are several careers that don't: Marines/All - Edu, Army/All - Edu, Merchant/All - Int, Noble/Dilettant - Int (This one is probably ok), Rogue/Enforcer - Str, Rogue/Corsair - Int.
Actually, why not offer the first 5 stats on the PD table in all careers?
Events There are a lot of events and mishaps that seem incomplete. i.e. Navy Mishap 3 - what happens if I succeed? Agent Event 8 refers to careers that don't exist.
Most 11 Events say you receive +4DM to your next advancement roll in any career - but your next advancement roll by definition would be in that career (unless the sequence in the checklist is incorrect). Navy and Marine 11 say +4DM on one advancement roll (they don't specify "next").
Since we're rolling an event or mishap every turn, I think the tables ought to be expanded. You don't have to make many characters before you start getting the same events showing up several times. There are a few ways to do this:
- Next tables. i.e. Roll 1d6 to see which event table you roll on, then roll 2d6 on that table.
- Extended table with die modifers i.e table goes from 2-20, with a +1 DM/term or something.
- A 6x6 matrix. You could make a master even matrix for all careers and populate the cells with letter codes, then define those codes differently in each career.
- A 3d6 table.
Related Skills From page 5 of the skills section:
Emphasis mine. This seems to indicate that if I have Admin 1, for example, I effectively have Advocate, Broker, and Persuade at 0 in every situation. Is that what's intended?
This also means that if I have Gun Combat (Slug Rifle) 1, then any Guns(Any) 0 result that comes up later is worthless to me, because I effectively have them all Gun Combat specialties at 0 already. So getting Gun (Any) twice in basic training in the Army (or Art(Any) twice as an Entertainer) is pretty pointless. And some specialities are less related than others (Trade, for example).
Is this overpowered? Looking at some of the characters I've rolled up, they're going to have an effective skill level 0 in a lot more skills than I thought, because of related skills. Maybe related skills should work more like Jack of All Trades - having admin would reduce my unskilled penalty in Advocate, Broker, and Persuade.
I'm also wondering if Mechanic ought to be a cascade skill. Fixing the power lant on a grav flyer is different than repairing the transmission of a ground vehicle, or patching a hole in a starship.
Background Skills. Not many choices here, and has been mentioned elsewhere, there's no earth-like environment. You can also theoretically make a character from a primitive vacuum world, which seems wrong. I suggest building a matrix to create random planets, starting with TL.
Drifters and the Draft. On pg 4, "If you fail to qualify for any career, you have two options." This could be interpreted to mean that you may attempt to qualify for multiple careers before falling back on Drift or Draft. I concur with other posters that you should only be able to choose the draft once, and this should be explicitly stated. I also think you should have the option of choosing not to serve another term at this point and finishing your character. If I've served a few terms in the army, then try to become an agent but fail my qualification roll, do I really need to serve a term as a drifter before finishing my character?
Career Changes Can I change specialties in a career without requalifying? If so, how does this affect my rank? Can I change specialities in a career if I do requalify, or can I only try each career once? Does it make a difference if I mustered out voluntarily or suffered a mishap? The answer might be different for different careers.
Drifters The drifter career is pretty brutal - you end up here because you were too unlucky to get into something else, and then you have a 9+ survival roll. Thus most characters will fail their survival roll, suffer a mishap, and have further penalties (-1DM for previous career) on their next term. I suggest lowering the survival requirement for drifters, and putting more negative events on the events table. This at least gives characters who end up drifters a chance to pick up a few more skills, instead of getting kicked while they're down.
Military careers Like others, I find it odd that all members of the military are either privates or officers. It's also strange the Leadership doesn't appear on the Navy or Marine skill tables anywhere - the only way to gain it is through promotion or events. I suggest changing the Advanced Education column requirement to (Rank 3+) or something (or maybe Rank X+ OR Edu Y+), then populate it with skills like Leadership, Tactics, Admin, etc. Actually, making the Advanced Education table require rank X instead of Edu might be good for all careers.
Personal Development I think every career ought to offer the stat necessary for advancement under Personal Development, but there are several careers that don't: Marines/All - Edu, Army/All - Edu, Merchant/All - Int, Noble/Dilettant - Int (This one is probably ok), Rogue/Enforcer - Str, Rogue/Corsair - Int.
Actually, why not offer the first 5 stats on the PD table in all careers?
Events There are a lot of events and mishaps that seem incomplete. i.e. Navy Mishap 3 - what happens if I succeed? Agent Event 8 refers to careers that don't exist.
Most 11 Events say you receive +4DM to your next advancement roll in any career - but your next advancement roll by definition would be in that career (unless the sequence in the checklist is incorrect). Navy and Marine 11 say +4DM on one advancement roll (they don't specify "next").
Since we're rolling an event or mishap every turn, I think the tables ought to be expanded. You don't have to make many characters before you start getting the same events showing up several times. There are a few ways to do this:
- Next tables. i.e. Roll 1d6 to see which event table you roll on, then roll 2d6 on that table.
- Extended table with die modifers i.e table goes from 2-20, with a +1 DM/term or something.
- A 6x6 matrix. You could make a master even matrix for all careers and populate the cells with letter codes, then define those codes differently in each career.
- A 3d6 table.
Related Skills From page 5 of the skills section:
Emphasis mine. This seems to indicate that if I have Admin 1, for example, I effectively have Advocate, Broker, and Persuade at 0 in every situation. Is that what's intended?
This also means that if I have Gun Combat (Slug Rifle) 1, then any Guns(Any) 0 result that comes up later is worthless to me, because I effectively have them all Gun Combat specialties at 0 already. So getting Gun (Any) twice in basic training in the Army (or Art(Any) twice as an Entertainer) is pretty pointless. And some specialities are less related than others (Trade, for example).
Is this overpowered? Looking at some of the characters I've rolled up, they're going to have an effective skill level 0 in a lot more skills than I thought, because of related skills. Maybe related skills should work more like Jack of All Trades - having admin would reduce my unskilled penalty in Advocate, Broker, and Persuade.
I'm also wondering if Mechanic ought to be a cascade skill. Fixing the power lant on a grav flyer is different than repairing the transmission of a ground vehicle, or patching a hole in a starship.
AKAramis said:
Still doesn't answer the original question: Does service coverage of the cost of medical recovery apply if the character got the injury through a Mishap and thus has to leave the career?
That should be stated in the group packages, as well as the career section.
TrippyHippy said:
Citizen as you've written seems a bit vague really, why can't I be a miner for instance?
I'd suggest something like:
Bureaucrat, The civil servant and corporate drone types.
Services, Someone who provides a service to the general public - Fireman, Lawyer, Teacher, Hairdresser, Architect, Haulage.
Producer(?), Minerals Extraction, Farming, Construction/Engineering, Heavy Industry [maybe need a better category name].
You know what, I'm going to try this. Downloaded, and the Merchant stuff printed as well as the stuff about Character Creation that isn't actual Character Generation printed.
My comment about the Tech Levels still stands - separate Iron Age from Bronze Age, make Iron Age TL-2, make TL-3 the Midieval era, make TL-4 everything between 1450 and 1850, make TL-5 1850 to 1920, TL-6 1920 to 1955 and TL-7 1955 to 2000 with TL-8 being 2001 to 2050.
My comment about the Tech Levels still stands - separate Iron Age from Bronze Age, make Iron Age TL-2, make TL-3 the Midieval era, make TL-4 everything between 1450 and 1850, make TL-5 1850 to 1920, TL-6 1920 to 1955 and TL-7 1955 to 2000 with TL-8 being 2001 to 2050.
I can understand the desire to play a "normal" character, but Citizen doesn't seem like a very compelling career. The names of Citizen career specialities are not so important - what skills would you put on the specialist tables? You can make a case for a bureaucrat (Admin, Advocate, Computer, Broker or Diplomat or Persuade, Drive or Fly), though that's not much different than the Merchant skill list.. What else? Rural - Animal and Survive are about it. Industrial/Tradesman - Mechanic, Trade(), and what? There just aren't a lot of skills to represent "citizen" type jobs.
dmccoy1693
Cosmic Mongoose
Tychus said:
Computer, Gun(any ballistic type weapon), athletics, comms, drive, flyer, mechanic, seafarer, steward, streetwise, trade. Citizen is kind of a mish-mash of odd jobs and skills you pick up on the fly.
A farmer could know gun to protect the farm, athletics because of working by the sweat of his brow, comms to radio other farmers when they need help, mechanic to fix farming equipment, trade since he'd know the business of farming.
An industrial/tradesman would know computers to file a report, gun to protect his family, athletics drive flyer mechanic and trade are obvious.
yea the basic idea isn't "compelling" but there's lots of room for potental.
