All Stop And Pivot query

[Iain McGhee]

Had a little dispute about how this works the other night. I always thought the ship could only turn up to twice a normal turn, same as for Come About e.g. a Hyperion with 2/45 could make a 90 degree max turn. The other player thought it was twice the total turns i.e. the Hyperion could make a 180 degree max turn. Which is correct ?

Thanks

 

[Da Boss]

you are correct.

a ship with 1 45 turn can make one 90 degree turn
A ship with one or more 90 degree turns can turn upto 180 degrees

 

[Iain McGhee]

1 vote in my favour, thanks :wink:

 

[Democratus]

A ship has two statistics for turning.
1) Number of turns that can be made per turn
2) The maximum angle for each turn

Looking at the language in the Special Action, you get to double the "turn rate" of the ship.

Unfortunately, the movement section of the rules don't define the term "turn rate". So it is a meaningless rule. It's left to us to interpret what this is supposed to mean.

In every practical usage I have seen, this is interpreted to mean that a ship may make a single turn of up to twice the normal maximum angle.

 

[mollari_uk]

I think this came up in a game of mine a while ago. I though it was double your turns.

"Turn rate" translates to me as the rate at which you turn. That's the whole thing. A ship who can turn 2/45 is faster and has a higher "turn rate" than one with 1/45. So come about is better for the 2/45 than it is for the 1/45.

E.g.
1/45 becomes 2/45
2/45 becomes 4/45

Actually writing this has made me change my mind I think. As you can only turn a certain "rate" per turn then the degree of turn would be the thing that doubles.

So I change my opinion, I think it is that:

1/45 becomes 1/90

However what happens if you have 2/45? Does the rule say you can only make one turn?

 

[Foxmeister]

However what happens if you have 2/45? Does the rule say you can only make one turn?

In order to make more than one turn, you have to have move at least 2" forward in a straight line (1" for Agile craft) between turns before you may turn again.

By definition, if you "All Stop and Pivot", you are not allowed to move any distance whatsoever, so you can only make one turn.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Taran]

I think it's "Come About" that doubles either the rate of a single turn (i.e., 1/45 becomes 1/90 and 1/90 becomes 1/180) OR the number of turns you can make (1/45 becomes 2/45, 2/45 becomes 4/45)

But you have to choose between one or the other.








...Or is the adding number of turns limited to adding 1 turn? It's been too long. I used it all the time as ISA. Even more than CBD.

 

[kodiak888]

Not that I have many games under my belt, but I've always played that you get double the total amount of turns, so if it was 1/45 you could turn 90, 2/45 can turn 180.

The reasoning behind this is that the only reason a ship with 2/45 can't turn 1/90 is because of it's forward momentum. If it was stopped, and had all of it's engine power focused on pivoting, it could (imo) turn faster and further than it could normally pivot in a regular turn.

 

[mollari_uk]

Not that I have many games under my belt, but I've always played that you get double the total amount of turns, so if it was 1/45 you could turn 90, 2/45 can turn 180.

The reasoning behind this is that the only reason a ship with 2/45 can't turn 1/90 is because of it's forward momentum. If it was stopped, and had all of it's engine power focused on pivoting, it could (imo) turn faster and further than it could normally pivot in a regular turn.

I used to think this too but if you think about the differences between number of turns and turn "rate" then it becomes more clear.

E.g.

A ship could be 1/90 or 2/45, these are different styles of ship.

1/90 means a ship can take the stress of turning round fast and/or has powerful turning thrusters, but it isn't manouverable to twist and turn while moving. So with All Stop and Pivot! the 1/90 can turn 180 because that fits it's normal way of moving, but a 2/45 can only do 1/90.

Not sure I've explained that very well but it makes sense to me.

 

[Da Boss]

I agree with Mollari - that is how we normally play if it helps...........

 

[katadder]

its double one turn even if the ship has 2 turns on AS&P it only gets one turn at double. so a hyperion can turn 90 degrees.

 

[M1ndr1d3rs]

Not that I have many games under my belt, but I've always played that you get double the total amount of turns, so if it was 1/45 you could turn 90, 2/45 can turn 180.

The reasoning behind this is that the only reason a ship with 2/45 can't turn 1/90 is because of it's forward momentum. If it was stopped, and had all of it's engine power focused on pivoting, it could (imo) turn faster and further than it could normally pivot in a regular turn.

By that logic, you could explain how the whitestar could do its crazy maneuvers.. But I'd still say the rule meant for a 2/45 ship to be able to pivot 90 degrees.. It would be broken if it could turn 180..

But I don't have that many games under my belt either..

 

[lastbesthope]

I think it's "Come About" that doubles either the rate of a single turn (i.e., 1/45 becomes 1/90 and 1/90 becomes 1/180) OR the number of turns you can make (1/45 becomes 2/45, 2/45 becomes 4/45)

But you have to choose between one or the other.








...Or is the adding number of turns limited to adding 1 turn? It's been too long. I used it all the time as ISA. Even more than CBD.

IIRC Come About either adds one extra turn at your normal turn rate or allowws you to add 45 degrees to one of your turns.

i.e. a 2/90 ship on Come About becomes either 3/90 OR 1/90 plus 1/135 (Can be made in any order)

LBH

 

[Taran]

Yeah. I think you're right, LBH. I use it a LOT with my ISA. Not so much with my EA, though. But with my ISA, it's my most used SA. Let's me do some crazy stuff.

 

[lastbesthope]

Yup, a WS on Come About can do some very interesting things.

LBH

 

[Burger]

its double one turn even if the ship has 2 turns on AS&P it only gets one turn at double. so a hyperion can turn 90 degrees.

Yep I agree with this one, I think it came up at a tournament once. It is double the turn angle, the number of turns is not relevant. So a 2/45 ship would only be able to turn 90 degrees on AS&P.