Armchair_Marine
Mongoose
Anyone think we need a rule covering airborne paratroopers?
Airborne(Parachute) deployment rules?
- Thread starter Armchair_Marine
- Start date
I see no problems with para-troops apart from the fact that they really aren't very good unless they get a free drop, coming in under fire will massacre them as was proved repeatedly during WW2; and if you give them a free drop how are they different to any other deployed unit?
Maybe you could write a scenario that has assumed one has side has parachuted in, rolling dice to see where units have landed on the table, and whether or not they have been scattered with models out of command. The idea is that the para troops have to hold the enemy for X turns before land re-inforcements can make it to them. Actually I could see this being a really nice scenario to add to campaigns, doing para drops could be a tactic to try and stop your opponents from moving re-inforcements around their controled area, or to open up bridge heads to assault held territores.
Maybe you could write a scenario that has assumed one has side has parachuted in, rolling dice to see where units have landed on the table, and whether or not they have been scattered with models out of command. The idea is that the para troops have to hold the enemy for X turns before land re-inforcements can make it to them. Actually I could see this being a really nice scenario to add to campaigns, doing para drops could be a tactic to try and stop your opponents from moving re-inforcements around their controled area, or to open up bridge heads to assault held territores.
The Old Soldier
Mongoose
That and they usually drop far from a enemy ready for battle, and mainly at night. 8)
The Old Soldier
Mongoose
You could have them set up at the beginning of the game anywhere except in the enemy deployment area. OR have the roll to come on after the 1st turn on any table edge, including the enemies deployment edges.
DamageInc.
Mongoose
cordas said:The Old Soldier said:
Yup, so how would they be any different from a normal troop (apart from better stats maybe), oh and they would have limited support options and no armour. However you could give them cruise missile artillery
Well, a couple points.
1) By no armor, I assume you mean vehicle support, as we still take our personal body armor on jumps. Shadows could be easily air dropped, and one of the old experimental programs the Army had was for an airborne tank call the M8AGS, 105mm main gun, light, modular armor to support the infantry advance.
2) As for stats changes, perhaps something with the to hit dice as I know that American paratroopers get many, many days at firing ranges honing their skills. Also, paratroopers tend to be more willing to engage the enemy in close quarters. There's the Rule of LGOPs allowing leadership to be more spread out amongst the unit so that the mission can be accomplished even if chalks are dissarrayed. Paratroopers are used more like a shock or praetorian unit to gain surprise and establish footholds. American paratroopers are used mostly to seize and control enemy airfields. SF combat jumps are different, but involve much smaller elements. Airborne soldiers usually have the latest commo, optics, and weapons since larger vehicles can't be used.
3) We do have artillery assets, however most of that would still be off table. forward observors and tacps would control CAS and arty fires. regular infantry would carry more light anti-armor weapons like the Javelin and AT4s.
4) Personally, I would see the rules as allowing the use of a seperate table edge for arrival, representing arriving at a DZ off the board, and humping to the battle site. Paratroopers and aircraft are expensive and no military drops them into the middle of a firefight. Still, for a one-off scenario or something they could be pretty cool.
Those that say Airborne troops are outdated are partially right. Airborne training is more about building discipline and agressiveness than making use of total envelopment. Still, there are times and places that call for jumping troops into battle.
Airborne, All The Way!
1) Yeah I meant armour as in tanks. Yes I know there have been various programs dating back as far as WW2, when the Russians made a glider variant of the T34. However as far as I am aware there is nothing in production now or actually planned. Size 2 vehicles however are a different matter they are many that have been developed for air transportation by gliders and choppers.
2) Paratroops around the world tend to be classed as Elite forces, and any stats should represent this. However scattered landings will still have an effect of the command structure and a units ability to function, maybe a special rule that paratroopers out of command only loose 1 action, rather than 2 whilst they sort themselves out.
3) Local off board artillery for paratroopers just sounds wrong, yes I know they carry light and heavy mortars but it feels wrong to give them acess to it. I would say they should get access to 1 shot cruise missiles that they buy and pre-game decide on what turn they arrive, and when they arrive they can be guided by command on the ground. Yes they should defiantly come with anti tank weapons, as they are having to surivive on their own.
4) I would prefer rules for scattered deployment (FOW does some nice rules for this that are simple), add in a roll for broken command and they would be fit to go.
I know not all of these suggestions are feild correct and some of them are bending things a bit, but my idea is to make a para force something special and different to a normal land force, rather than just have it be a land force with a couple of extra bells.
Airborne all the way..... definatly!
2) Paratroops around the world tend to be classed as Elite forces, and any stats should represent this. However scattered landings will still have an effect of the command structure and a units ability to function, maybe a special rule that paratroopers out of command only loose 1 action, rather than 2 whilst they sort themselves out.
3) Local off board artillery for paratroopers just sounds wrong, yes I know they carry light and heavy mortars but it feels wrong to give them acess to it. I would say they should get access to 1 shot cruise missiles that they buy and pre-game decide on what turn they arrive, and when they arrive they can be guided by command on the ground. Yes they should defiantly come with anti tank weapons, as they are having to surivive on their own.
4) I would prefer rules for scattered deployment (FOW does some nice rules for this that are simple), add in a roll for broken command and they would be fit to go.
I know not all of these suggestions are feild correct and some of them are bending things a bit, but my idea is to make a para force something special and different to a normal land force, rather than just have it be a land force with a couple of extra bells.
Airborne all the way..... definatly!
The Old Soldier
Mongoose
Meh, FOV is a WW2 game. Today's Para are a different in many ways. Having them scattered would not be realistic at all. Like I said they don't drop into the battlezone but behind it. They would already be grouped.
The Old Soldier said:
Then they are just another land based army as far as the game is concerned. We already have a few of those in the game, and more will follow. Paratroops give MGP the option to do something really quite different, such a force will only add more variety to the game and I think that will be for the better, even if it isn't strictly by the book.
Also if they are doing a night drop by parachute they are relying on a number of things that are out of their control whilst trying to maintain formation, ok no where nearly as much as WW2 paratroops where but still.
A single turn in Evo is so short, a modern MBT can fire only a single shot. Ask the tank crewmen around here - that's very short period of time. This means that your typical battle would be long over, before any paratrooper could get his feet on the ground after jumping out of perfectly good airplane... Adding any rules that would allow you to drop paratroopers during the battle would remove BF:Evo from the "almost believable fantasy" realm and put into "40k and other such" category in an instant...
I use the following rule for paratroops on my cards:
Parachute Deployment: Squad may enter the battlefield on any turn from any edge other than the opponent’s deployment zone instead of deploying normally.
As for the armour - well, the US Army with its tested, but not deployed M8 MGS is far behind pretty any other BIG army in the world*. Russians use paradeployed (yes, paradeployed, not flown in after an airfield is seized) armor since at least 1969 (BMD-1, BMD-2, BMD-3, BTR-D, 2S9 mobile mortar, 2S25 gun system). Chinese use the ZLC2000 airborne fighting vehicle, which has pretty much the same capabilities - can be dropped from Il-76 .
* You guys had the Sheridan, but... it's not there anymore.
I use the following rule for paratroops on my cards:
Parachute Deployment: Squad may enter the battlefield on any turn from any edge other than the opponent’s deployment zone instead of deploying normally.
As for the armour - well, the US Army with its tested, but not deployed M8 MGS is far behind pretty any other BIG army in the world*. Russians use paradeployed (yes, paradeployed, not flown in after an airfield is seized) armor since at least 1969 (BMD-1, BMD-2, BMD-3, BTR-D, 2S9 mobile mortar, 2S25 gun system). Chinese use the ZLC2000 airborne fighting vehicle, which has pretty much the same capabilities - can be dropped from Il-76 .
* You guys had the Sheridan, but... it's not there anymore.
Actually the Russians had a T-34 based glider in the 2nd world war, unfortunatly it was so heavy that the plane that towed it into the air had to be practicaly on the front line anyway because it didn't have the range to tow it anywhere.
I like the look of the ZLC2000, that would be a sweet addition to the PLA paratroops if they came out.
When it comes to game time and para troops, who said anything about starting the game when they jumped out of the plane (or even before then)..... I would suggest that the 1st turn of the game belongs to the paratroops, and each units 1st action is to land......
The Defender sets up his emplacements, places his troops. The defender classes the entire board as his deployment zone. The board is then split into quaters. Then the attacker takes first turn and lands his paratroopers, something along the lines of roll a D6 per unit
1: Unit is delayed and does not arrive this turn
2: Unit lands in quater 1
3: Unit lands in quater 2
4: Unit lands in quater 3
5: Unit lands in quater 4
6. Attacker gets to land unit where he chooses on the board.
Roll a 2nd D6 per unit
1: Unit is scattered and looses remaining action, also triggers reaction from units with 10"
2-3: Unit scattered and looses remaining action, but does not trigger reaction
4-5: Unit triggers reaction from defenders within 10"
6: Unit lands safely with the element of suprise, no reactions from landing allowed.
Unit takes remaining action if it has one. then land next unit.
Defending player takes turn as normal.
Attacking player lands any delayed units (if a 1 is rolled re-roll it, you can't re-roll re-rolls so units can be delayed more than once, but this is unlikely)
I would also suggest that units can't be landed within 4" of an enemy model, but are placed at the attackers discretion using the above dice roll. All units must be landed within the units command radius, fire teams can only be split off on the ground. Scattered units follow the above rule regarding placement, they are just considered to use the lost action to obtain full unit coherence.
Bringing them on from any board edge really isn't that different from using reserves normally. You could also use the parachute deployment for reserves, but only if you are the attacker. Before the start of the game you would say what turn the paratroops are supposed to arrive and just deploy them using the above rules.
I just think this would make for a very different game and army faction.
I like the look of the ZLC2000, that would be a sweet addition to the PLA paratroops if they came out.
When it comes to game time and para troops, who said anything about starting the game when they jumped out of the plane (or even before then)..... I would suggest that the 1st turn of the game belongs to the paratroops, and each units 1st action is to land......
The Defender sets up his emplacements, places his troops. The defender classes the entire board as his deployment zone. The board is then split into quaters. Then the attacker takes first turn and lands his paratroopers, something along the lines of roll a D6 per unit
1: Unit is delayed and does not arrive this turn
2: Unit lands in quater 1
3: Unit lands in quater 2
4: Unit lands in quater 3
5: Unit lands in quater 4
6. Attacker gets to land unit where he chooses on the board.
Roll a 2nd D6 per unit
1: Unit is scattered and looses remaining action, also triggers reaction from units with 10"
2-3: Unit scattered and looses remaining action, but does not trigger reaction
4-5: Unit triggers reaction from defenders within 10"
6: Unit lands safely with the element of suprise, no reactions from landing allowed.
Unit takes remaining action if it has one. then land next unit.
Defending player takes turn as normal.
Attacking player lands any delayed units (if a 1 is rolled re-roll it, you can't re-roll re-rolls so units can be delayed more than once, but this is unlikely)
I would also suggest that units can't be landed within 4" of an enemy model, but are placed at the attackers discretion using the above dice roll. All units must be landed within the units command radius, fire teams can only be split off on the ground. Scattered units follow the above rule regarding placement, they are just considered to use the lost action to obtain full unit coherence.
Bringing them on from any board edge really isn't that different from using reserves normally. You could also use the parachute deployment for reserves, but only if you are the attacker. Before the start of the game you would say what turn the paratroops are supposed to arrive and just deploy them using the above rules.
I just think this would make for a very different game and army faction.
