Advice with Monster Creation

[warlock1971]

So I am trying my hand at converting a D&D/Pathfinder monster to Legend and I have gotten stuck. In my example, I have used the Aboleth, as I would like this to be the unseen, controller in the background, only being faced at the end of the campaign.

I am stuck with the Spell-like effects that the creature is assigned in D&D and Pathfinder. Does one just use Common Magic or make the Aboleth skilled in both Sorcery and Common Magic to simulate these?

Any assistance is highly appreciated!

 

[DamonJynx]

The beauty of being he GM is that you can design these things however you wish. Personally, I would just give it the spells it needs as special abilities and not worry too much about the specifics, i.e it casts Dominate at 5 Intensity and a skill of 75% (or POW/WIS*#, whatever gives it a reasonable skill level).

 

[Dan True]

So I am trying my hand at converting a D&D/Pathfinder monster to Legend and I have gotten stuck. In my example, I have used the Aboleth, as I would like this to be the unseen, controller in the background, only being faced at the end of the campaign.

I am stuck with the Spell-like effects that the creature is assigned in D&D and Pathfinder. Does one just use Common Magic or make the Aboleth skilled in both Sorcery and Common Magic to simulate these?

Any assistance is highly appreciated!

When I converted monster for Eberron, I tried sticking with sorcery for tough opponents - it is more MP effective and that flexibility might come in handy.

With regards to spell-like effects, supernatural abilities and the like you can just give it a special trait which you create for the occasion. Sometimes the original text can be surprisingly easy to convert - other times they can be a pain.

- Dan

 

[warlock1971]

Thanks for the quick responses guys!

I think I will use Sorcery here as the abilities are mainly illusion-types. I will post the critter once completed for your feedback/critique.

 

[warlock1971]

Please take a look at the below and let me have your thoughts. I haven't GMed a Legend campaign, as yet, so have no real frame of reference as to whether or not this version of an Aboleth is powerful, or not. I really quite like the wikipedia description and will probably use that:

Aboleth
Dice Average 1d20 Hit Locations AP/HP
STR 4D6+6 20 1-10 Body 2/12
CON 3D6+1 12 11-12 Tentacle 1 2/12
SIZ 6D6+24 45 13-14 Tentacle 2 2/12
INT 4D6+1 15 15-16 Tentacle 3 2/12
POW 4D6+3 17 17-18 Tentacle 4 2/12
DEX 3D6+1 12 19-20 Head 2/12
CHA 4D6+3 17
Combat Actions: 3
Damage Modifier: +2D6
Traits: Darksight up to 20 m, Tough Hide (2 AP, with no armour penalty), Poison (Mucus Cloud), Poison: Slime
Magic Points: 17
Movement: 16m (swim), 3m (crawl/slither)
Strike Rank: +14
Skills: Athletics 65%, Evade 65%, Influence 90%, Language (Aboleth) 100%, Language (Aklo) 95%, Language (Aquan) 95, Language (Undercommon) 95%, Lore(Arcane) 95%, Lore(The Oceans) 95%, Manipulation 100%, Perception 95%, Persistence 95%, Resilience 75%, Sorcery 100% (Aboleth), Stealth 75%, Swim 100%
Spell-like Abilities: Entrancing Glow, Illusion, Phantasm (Sight), Phantasm (Sound), Dominate (Humans), Dominate (Marine Animals)
Combat Styles: Bite 80%, Tentacle 75%
Poison: Aura mucus cloud (2 metres)
While underwater, an aboleth exudes a cloud of transparent slime. All creatures adjacent to an aboleth are affected.
Application: Contact
Onset time: Immediate
Duration: On-going as long as exposure remains.
Resistance Time: The victim must succeed a Resistance roll each round or lose the ability to breathe air (but gain the ability to breathe water) for 3 hours. Renewed contact with an aboleth’s mucus cloud and failing another save extends the effect for another 3 hours.
Success indicates the victim has resisted the mucus for the remainder of the encounter.
Potency: 95
Resistance: Resilience.
Conditions: Water Breathing. If the victim fails the Resistance roll he loses the ability to breathe air but is able to breathe water for a 3 hour period. This condition is cumulative based on the number of times exposed to the mucus cloud.
Potentially, the Asphyxiation condition could come in to effect.
Antidote/Cure: There is no known method, save magic, that can counteract the effects.
Poison: Slime
A creature hit by an aboleth’s tentacle must succeed on a Resilience roll or have his skin and flesh transform into a clear, slimy membrane over the course of a few rounds. The creature’s new “flesh” is soft and tender, reducing its CON for as long as the condition persists.
Application: Contact
Onset time: Immediate
Duration: On-going as long as exposure remains.
Resistance Time: If the creature’s flesh isn’t kept moist, it dries quickly and the victim takes 1d6 points of damage every 10 minutes.
Success indicates the victim has resisted the Slime once only, a new Resilience roll is required after each successive strike
Potency: 95
Resistance: Resilience.
Conditions: CON Reduced by 4 for as long as the condition persists. Additional damage to area afflicted applies if not kept moist – Apply the Agony condition, as per the Legend Rule Book.
Antidote/Cure: There is no known method, save magic, that can counteract the effects.
Weapons
Type Size Reach Damage AP/HP
Bite M T 2D4
Tentacles L H (5m) 1d6+5 plus slime As per tentacle

 

[Dan True]

Hm, the format is really hard to read.

One thing that strikes the eyes is the number of CA. When it has tentacles (and likely a part of the brain dedicated to each) I would give it more CAs. Almost no matter how tough your creature - if it has 3 CAs and the party has 12 - it will loose. Horribly.

- Dan

 

[warlock1971]

Thanks Dan. I'll reformat and repost, thanks for the advice on the CAs for the tentacles.

 

[Dan True]

Thanks Dan. I'll reformat and repost, thanks for the advice on the CAs for the tentacles.

For instance I gave my Mindflayer/Ilithid 5 CA. I gave the beholder 4, but allowed it to use its eyestalks without using a CA.

- Dan

 

[warlock1971]

Thanks Dan. I'll reformat and repost, thanks for the advice on the CAs for the tentacles.

For instance I gave my Mindflayer/Ilithid 5 CA. I gave the beholder 4, but allowed it to use its eyestalks without using a CA.

- Dan

I like the idea, however, the difference is that the Beholder's eye doesn't do physical damage, other than the resultant spell damage. The Aboleth's tentacles each do damage and have an associated poison effect.

So I will up the CAs to 5, 1 per tentacle and 1 other and see how that goes.

 

[warlock1971]

I hope this format is better!

Aboleth

Dice Average 1d20 Hit Locations AP/HP

STR 4D6+6 20 1-10 Body 2/12
CON 3D6+1 12 11-12 Tentacle 1 2/12
SIZ 6D6+24 45 13-14 Tentacle 2 2/12
INT 4D6+1 15 15-16 Tentacle 3 2/12
POW 4D6+3 17 17-18 Tentacle 4 2/12
DEX 3D6+1 12 19-20 Head 2/12
CHA 4D6+3 17

Combat Actions: 5

Damage Modifier: +2D6

Traits: Darksight up to 20 m, Tough Hide (2 AP, with no armour penalty), Poison (Mucus Cloud), Poison: Slime

Magic Points: 17

Movement: 16m (swim), 3m (crawl/slither)

Strike Rank: +14

Skills: Athletics 65%, Evade 65%, Influence 90%, Language (Aboleth) 100%, Language (Aklo) 95%, Language (Aquan) 95, Language (Undercommon) 95%, Lore(Arcane) 95%, Lore(The Oceans) 95%, Manipulation 100%, Perception 95%, Persistence 95%, Resilience 75%, Sorcery 100% (Aboleth), Stealth 75%, Swim 100%

Spell-like Abilities: Entrancing Glow, Illusion, Phantasm (Sight), Phantasm (Sound), Dominate (Humans), Dominate (Marine Animals)

Combat Styles: Bite 80%, Tentacle 75%

Poison: Aura mucus cloud (2 metres)
While underwater, an aboleth exudes a cloud of transparent slime. All creatures adjacent to an aboleth are affected.
Application: Contact
Onset time: Immediate
Duration: On-going as long as exposure remains.
Resistance Time: The victim must succeed a Resistance roll each round or lose the ability to breathe air (but gain the ability to breathe water) for 3 hours. Renewed contact with an aboleth’s mucus cloud and failing another save extends the effect for another 3 hours.
Success indicates the victim has resisted the mucus for the remainder of the encounter.
Potency: 95
Resistance: Resilience.
Conditions: Water Breathing. If the victim fails the Resistance roll he loses the ability to breathe air but is able to breathe water for a 3 hour period. This condition is cumulative based on the number of times exposed to the mucus cloud.
Potentially, the Asphyxiation condition could come in to effect.
Antidote/Cure: There is no known method, save magic, that can counteract the effects.

Poison: Slime
A creature hit by an aboleth’s tentacle must succeed on a Resilience roll or have his skin and flesh transform into a clear, slimy membrane over the course of a few rounds. The creature’s new “flesh” is soft and tender, reducing its CON for as long as the condition persists.
Application: Contact
Onset time: Immediate
Duration: On-going as long as exposure remains.
Resistance Time: If the creature’s flesh isn’t kept moist, it dries quickly and the victim takes 1d6 points of damage every 10 minutes.
Success indicates the victim has resisted the Slime once only, a new Resilience roll is required after each successive strike
Potency: 95
Resistance: Resilience.
Conditions: CON Reduced by 4 for as long as the condition persists. Additional damage to area afflicted applies if not kept moist – Apply the Agony condition, as per the Legend Rule Book.
Antidote/Cure: There is no known method, save magic, that can counteract the effects.

Weapons
Type Size Reach Damage AP/HP
Bite M T 2D4
Tentacles L H (5m) 1d6+5 plus slime As per tentacle

 

[Dan True]

Yes, much better.

Well, it probably won't stand up much in a straight fight - but, why on earth should it fight straight anyway. The fact that it casts sorcery at 100% and has Dominate(Human) (what about other humanoids, elfs etc?) makes it rather scary. A party has 4 CA before it has cast Manipulate with manipulated targets, range and magnitude - hence any who fail an opposed test against 100% comes under its spell.

Auch. As it should be. But don't forget to foreshadow this fact Else you'll have tpk

- Dan

 

[warlock1971]

Yes, much better.

Well, it probably won't stand up much in a straight fight - but, why on earth should it fight straight anyway. The fact that it casts sorcery at 100% and has Dominate(Human) (what about other humanoids, elfs etc?) makes it rather scary. A party has 4 CA before it has cast Manipulate with manipulated targets, range and magnitude - hence any who fail an opposed test against 100% comes under its spell.

Auch. As it should be. But don't forget to foreshadow this fact Else you'll have tpk

- Dan

Dan, please could you explain the way you handled Spell-like abilities in a bit more detail? I was working off your Eberron Monster guide but got confused as the monster had Spell-Like Abilities and Sorcery ... I think at 65 or 75%. Is the premise that the monster gets these spell-like effects regardless, a number of times per day, but they are still bound by the monsters sorcery and manipulation skills as well as the Power Points?

 

[Dan True]

Dan, please could you explain the way you handled Spell-like abilities in a bit more detail? I was working off your Eberron Monster guide but got confused as the monster had Spell-Like Abilities and Sorcery ... I think at 65 or 75%. Is the premise that the monster gets these spell-like effects regardless, a number of times per day, but they are still bound by the monsters sorcery and manipulation skills as well as the Power Points?

The difference is mostly for flair. If it is listed as a spell-like ability, the GM can describe the creature concentrating or shimmering before the spell goes of. If it is pure sorcery skill, he could describe it as making arcane gestures. Ruleswise they follow the same rules precisely - except if a creature has some specific extra-rules in it's "Spell-Like abilities" trait. For instance many Demons can teleport, but only on self and 25 kg of carried material, but with no need to be able to see the destination. But the casting of teleport works exactly as any other sorcery spell unless otherwise noted.

- Dan

 

[warlock1971]

Thanks for the help Dan, much appreciated!

I have reduced the Manipulation and Sorcery Skills to 75%, by the way :wink:

 

[Mixster]

Wow, this monster can seriously wreck human parties that are not protected against magic.

It can pretty easily hide in ponds with it's illusions and 75% stealth. And when it wants to, it can ambush by casting a Target + Range modified Dominate (Human), and have that party hack each others to pieces. When one of the humans survive, it can just have the human drop his items and go for a swim. Then eat him.

Aboleths in D&D are probably equally dangerous (if played right they are actually one of the toughest monsters I've ever seen), so it's probably okay, but be careful of wiping the party out entirely.

 

[warlock1971]

Wow, this monster can seriously wreck human parties that are not protected against magic.

It can pretty easily hide in ponds with it's illusions and 75% stealth. And when it wants to, it can ambush by casting a Target + Range modified Dominate (Human), and have that party hack each others to pieces. When one of the humans survive, it can just have the human drop his items and go for a swim. Then eat him.

Aboleths in D&D are probably equally dangerous (if played right they are actually one of the toughest monsters I've ever seen), so it's probably okay, but be careful of wiping the party out entirely.

Thanks for the feedback, Mixster!

I haven't converted a monster to Legend before, I realize that this one can easily create havoc but not sure how to tone the power level down, or if I even should. My intention is for the Aboleth to be a behind-the-scenes puppet master, rather than something out in the open.

 

[Dan True]

Hm, it would probably be better to handle it environmental wise - i.e. instead of making it weaker, make sure the players have a chance to prepare and plan accordingly.. they may have a good idea of the properties of the final adversary revealed from the shadows. For instance they may have glimpses him and his lair through a scrying mirror, or found/liberated a member of the Aboleths minions... Perhaps they are given a talisman which can protect one human from mind-affecting spells (he can then be the character to lure the aboleth into the trap).
You could also make it possible that the encounter takes place in an area where the Aboleth has the upper hand - but through clever tactics it can be lead into a nearby area where it is much more vulnerable.

Don't forget, real world people can kill tigers and elephants - not because we hack away harder or withstand its attacks better.. but because we plan better

Though, the above is really hard to achieve. A player group can sometimes have a bad day, or think that "it's not nearly time for the final encounter", so they don't prepare as much as they should. I have seen player groups walse into tough encounters, but have also seem them overpreparing dramatically for easy encounters.

- Dan

 

[warlock1971]

So true Dan, I prefer the argument you raise. After all, as you mention, real-world people kill animals with thorough planning. One distinction, would be the Aboleth is very intelligent!

The idea is to use the Aboleth in a Cthulhuesque manner, controlling people from behind the scenes to bring it slaves, worshippers, whatever! People disappear but it isn't obvious or overly noticeable, as the setting is a large city. I can lead the party around with real clues and throw them off with red herrings while providing other shorter adventures to provide experience.

I don't have all the details mapped out in my head as yet but this is the overview.

 

[Mixster]

Well, building off D&D, and what this monster can, here's what I'd do if I were an Aboleth in a city environment.

Keep to the sewers, especially the lower ones where you can be reasonably safe, use dominated alligators (or whatever marine animal you can find in the sewers). To drag some humans down to you you can use for slaves to grab other humans to eat.

The trick would be to build a prison, where you'd be able to stash your humans for later use of food, or sending out with your domination ability to get more humans for the traps. I'd probably test out how good the humans turned out to bring more humans back when dominated, and keep those that does best alive longer. When you need to retrieve a human for domination, simply cast the spell on him and have him jump in the water, then hit him with your, Breathe Water "poison". Then swim/carry him out and send him up the sewers to get more humans 3-4 humans should be able to be taken per casting.
Remember to hit your agents with the moisture poison, so they will need to go back for moisturizing, even if they are freed from their domination.

Plan on taking either lonely homeless people that wont be missed, primarily for food, and entire families primarily for agents. Taking entire families is good because it gives you emotional blackmail, you can tell the agent you send out that you will kill his family should he fail. Taking homeless people is good for obvious reasons.

In combat use your illusions as your primary line of defense, when you hear adventurers arriving, making illusionary walkways over pitfalls seperates them and makes them weak.
Your marine animals should be able to work with you even while not dominated, as they will probably favor attacking humans over yourself (you are much bigger, and they get poisoned if they try to eat you).

Oh and although you are much better in combat than any lone human, you are not a combat monster, so hide deep down if they try to fight you, and use the water as your primary defense.

A sound way of creating an alternate option for adventurers to fight such a foe, would include either freeing it's "slaves" or draining water from the pool it lives in.

 

[warlock1971]

You have a devious mind there Mixster! I like the idea a lot ...