Adventure-Class Ships

[Arkathan]

Just like bad rolls can lead to wasted time, at my table, good rolls cut their travel time.
Since they are frequently tracking bounties/bad guys (or "bad guys in their eyes") it gives them a chance to reduce their opponent's lead.
Not RAW, but they enjoy the mechanic, so Rule Zero reigns.

 

[Vormaerin]

There's mechanics for that regarding Jump in the Companion (and other places. I think there's actually three different rules sets for how astrogation affects time and duration of jumps). And now in Cluster Truck they have rules for astrogation being useful in plotting faster (aka riskier) flight paths in real space.

And the original statement was just that one reason that travel seems less safe than the original designers' statements is because the rules have introduced a variety of die rolls that didn't previously exist and which are, often, rather challenging. Or require the explicit presence of off setting resources that were not originally required.

I'm a big fan of making Astrogation actually *do* something useful if it is going to be its own skill and a mandatory crew role. But that's a completely different topic from how safe space travel is.

 

[rinku]

For sure - skills need to be useful. Although Astrogation is usually in the mode of Steward - mostly there to qualify for a job.

But like higher levels of Steward being required to cater for larger numbers of passengers, you could say as a house or setting rule that higher Jump rated ships would normally employ higher levels of Astrogator. One Astrogation level per two jump levels feels about right, meaning your basic J-1 and J-2 ships are fine with Astrogator-1, but the J-3 ones are going to want someone with a bit more experience or expertise. A serious Naval warship with J-5 (i.e. Lightning class) would be unlikely to post a novice as Chief Astrogator; nor would they have much trouble finding that Astrogator-3.

I mean, the rules do make long jump calculations far from trivial without higher levels of Astrogation, so it makes game sense as well.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

I'm a big fan of making Astrogation actually *do* something useful if it is going to be its own skill and a mandatory crew role. But that's a completely different topic from how safe space travel is.

I'm considering the idea that the Astrogator doesn't just plot the jump but is effectively the pilot in Jump Space. In effect the Astrogator manoeuvres the Jump Bubble around "obstacles" that can't be plotted accurately like interstellar comets that could otherwise pull you out of Jump. Also lets you manoeuvre around jump shadows. Sort of what the Niven Known Space hyperdrive pilot does but using normal instruments in the bubble to shift the bubble course interactively. Interrupting the Astrogator during the final hours of Jump could cause "issues".

 

[Vormaerin]

For sure - skills need to be useful. Although Astrogation is usually in the mode of Steward - mostly there to qualify for a job.

But like higher levels of Steward being required to cater for larger numbers of passengers, you could say as a house or setting rule that higher Jump rated ships would normally employ higher levels of Astrogator. One Astrogation level per two jump levels feels about right, meaning your basic J-1 and J-2 ships are fine with Astrogator-1, but the J-3 ones are going to want someone with a bit more experience or expertise. A serious Naval warship with J-5 (i.e. Lightning class) would be unlikely to post a novice as Chief Astrogator; nor would they have much trouble finding that Astrogator-3.

I mean, the rules do make long jump calculations far from trivial without higher levels of Astrogation, so it makes game sense as well.

Even more of a tangent, but Steward has a wide range of useful applications outside of just being on the ship. It's a social skill useful for conflict management and appeasing upset people, it provides some practical skills (culinary arts and tailoring), and is key for other kinds of hosting situations, such as catering events or hosting a soiree. Not to mention being that undercover agent who is infiltrating the staff of a party as part of your spy scheme.

Had a player in my last campaign that ended up with Steward 3 as their best skill and was initially nonplussed, but it ended up being extremely useful in the campaign. Being able to talk with wine snobs, adjust stolen uniforms to fit better, just so many uses for a group that did a lot of heist type activities.

 

[rinku]

There's a case to combine Pilot and Astrogation in my mind. One specialty for system stuff another for Jump stuff. Maybe a third for interface and docking? I'm not a huge fan of it being a different specialty based on ship size. So something like:

Pilot
Specialties
* Interstellar Astrogation - used to calculate Jump plots
* System Astrogation - used to chart courses within a system
* Helm - used to maneuver vessels in relation to each other including docking and evasion, and for interface tasks.

As it is, Pilot has this legacy division between small craft and ships, and a pointless big ship specialty that PCs would only take for roleplaying reasons. Large ships don't even land on planets much, and space stations will be catering to THEM, or they'll be using small craft anyway, so are their pilots even using the specialty?

 

[Condottiere]

All certified ship masters should have astrogation/zero.

 

[rinku]

My suggestion would cover that automatically.

Even in ship crew positions, the Astrogator is commonly the co-pilot. So it also makes sense that that certified Astrogators should have Pilot-0. Again, this idea covers that.

 

[rinku]

You could easily go with Astrogation and Orbital Mechanics. It's not as if calculating an orbital transfer has much to do with distant stars.

 

[Vormaerin]

In my last game, the specialties were Pilot, Astrogation, and Aerospace. Even if capital ships required a different pilot skill, it's not one that will ever actually matter in any of my games so having it isn't important. But I also use 2300 style orbital transfers rather than "lifters" so the distinction between operating in space and operating in and around the atmosphere matters more.

 

[swordtart]

Even more of a tangent, but Steward has a wide range of useful applications outside of just being on the ship. It's a social skill useful for conflict management and appeasing upset people, it provides some practical skills (culinary arts and tailoring), and is key for other kinds of hosting situations, such as catering events or hosting a soiree. Not to mention being that undercover agent who is infiltrating the staff of a party as part of your spy scheme.

Had a player in my last campaign that ended up with Steward 3 as their best skill and was initially nonplussed, but it ended up being extremely useful in the campaign. Being able to talk with wine snobs, adjust stolen uniforms to fit better, just so many uses for a group that did a lot of heist type activities.

Space Jeeves

 

[swordtart]

Once you are in atmosphere, you could be substituting Flyer(Grav). Grav as whilst ships may be streamlined, they are not generally using wings. Is a launch dramatically different to a G-Carrier in its operation?

Pilot should be for non-atmosphere space stuff and could easily subsume Astrogation without too much issue (and reduce skills bloat). Having it as a specialism sounds like a good compromise.

 

[Condottiere]

I donno.

I'm thinking about using the same cockpit layout as a spacecraft, and configuring a blimp control centre that way.

(Space)pilot reverts to zero, but can fly it.