ACTA:SF initiative sinking?

[Iron Domokun]

I've heard about "initiative sinks" in ACTA, which from what I've read is a way of gaining the advantage with a numerically superior fleet by activating small ships first and moving them so they cannot be fired on, forcing the numerically inferior force to commit first. The fact that ships *must* move seems to balance this out a bit. That initiative sink may be forced to move into harm's way and get blown up. IIUC ships in the Star Fleet version don't need to move at all, so the player with the numerically superior fleet can just point to a ship (frigate, police ship, or even freighter) sitting in a corner, "move" it without moving at all and be sure it's out of trouble for the duration of the game. Have playtesters tried this? Have they found it to be a problem?

 

[MongooseMatt]

No.

The game is weighted towards the mid-range ships. If you go with a huge number of small frigates, you are going to be entering a world of issues!

 

[AdrianH]

It's a consequence of the way ACTA handles movement and firing, which is that you take it in turns to move a ship, and only once everything has moved does the firing start. It can be a problem in B5:ACTA because some ships have their main weapon firing down the boresight, meaning the ship has to be lined up exactly on the target, which won't happen if the target moves after you. In addition, B5:ACTA was specifically designed so that in general two smaller ships should be able to beat one larger ship. Logical conclusion: everyone used hordes of small ships, the nicer larger ships became essentially paperweights which rarely saw table action, and games took ages. However, B5:ACTA uses a hierarchical system for picking ships (Fleet Allocation Points, based on Priority Levels), and the revised system balances this to some extent because if the game is set at a certain level, you are penalised for taking ships far below this level.

ACTA:SF won't be so badly affected because the only "boresight" is when you're trying to get an enemy ship right on the boundary between two adjacent arcs. And sometimes it can be advantageous to move first, e.g. to ram or board before the enemy has a chance to get out of the way - provided ACTA:SF allows ramming and boarding, of course! There may be other reasons to want to move first, e.g. we've yet to see how Tholian Webs will work in ACTA:SF - if you pick your little ship behind the planet to move first, you could find that your flagship suddenly can't move at all. :twisted:

 

[scoutdad]

Re: Initiative sinking...
I'll admit that we've not encountered any issues with this during our testing, but then again... that's just us.

Matthew is correct. The game plays best with the middle sized ships. Large, capital units are great for that overwhelming burst of fire, but can succomb to the massed fire of several smaller units. Small units are great for manueverign to get those off angle shots - especially on Klingons with their heavy-duty forward shielding, but they don't pack enough punch to really crack the defenses of a mid-sized ship.

We've played off-sided point value battles where one side takes three or four large ships and the other takes 10 or 12 small ships only. Those seem to be crap shoots. You lose 3 or 4 small ships every turn and one large ship every turn. Ultimately, it seems to go the the player with the luckiest die rolls and if that's going to be the end result after 45 to 60 minutes of play, why not just roll 2d6 and declare high roll the winner?

We've also played battles where one player has a balanced fleet (a Battlecruiser, 2 or 3 heavy cruisers, 2 or 3 light cruisers, 2 or 3 destroyers, and 2 or 3 frigates) against both large fleets of small ships and small fleets of large ships. In these, the balanced fleet almost always triumphs.

And unlike previous versions of ACTA; ACTA: SF units have nine possible firing arcs and most weapon fire into multiple arcs. This means that even nominating a ship to move then not moving it doesn't mean it will not be in the firing arc of some ship. And withthe multitude of firing arcs and weapons, even teh ship which moves first will most likely still have targets in one or more of it's firign arcs after everythign else has moved.

 

[Iron Domokun]

Thanks, that's very reassuring. Especially that a "balanced fleet" works well. Looks like I'll be able to get the Border Boxes from ADB & the relevant Squadron Boxes and have a fleet that works for Federation Commander and ACTA:SF both.

 

[Myrm]

I've heard about "initiative sinks" in ACTA, which from what I've read is a way of gaining the advantage with a numerically superior fleet by activating small ships first and moving them so they cannot be fired on

Kind of - the large numbers of small ships option let you hold your important ships till after the other side ran out of activations (its alternating IGOUGO) and then either get them out of trouble or in a good position. It wasn't a phenomenally useful tactic against a well balanced opposition fleet with a broad set of weapons in many arcs and laid out properly as the firepower could spread out and batter the little ships - but it royally and spectacularly hosed fleets that relied on the Boresight arc of fire (straight line out the front) - the Drazi fleet in the game had a large (overwhelming) number of ships where the firepower was on the Boresight arc.

It becomes much less of a problem with broader arcs of fire, all around seeking weapons and longer range engagements which SF seems to have.

We also instituted a house rule whereby the side that won initiative could always hold one vessel until the last activation (going first or last based on their initial choice). That pretty much solved any gang up on the one guy and so ignore initiative benefits problem.

 

[Da Boss]

No.

The game is weighted towards the mid-range ships. If you go with a huge number of small frigates, you are going to be entering a world of issues!

Although this will also depend, as is often the case with ACTA, on the amount and type of terrain. Police ships or small gun boats hiding behind asteroids can still be important.

Having a few smaller ships does give tactical options - especially in a game where there is altenating movement and primary fire arcs - although the sheer agility of the ACTA ST ships does make this a bit less important than in B5.

Plus even little ships can carry powerful weapons..........and if they sneak through the shields on a 6 can put much larger ships in trouble.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Plus even little ships can carry powerful weapons..........and if they sneak through the shields on a 6 can put much larger ships in trouble.

That is certainly the great leveller

 

[Myrm]

Tiddly lil' War Eagle, Cloaked Plasma R - goodnight, sweet cruiser.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Tiddly lil' War Eagle, Cloaked Plasma R - goodnight, sweet cruiser.

A gang of Snipes are bad enough! In fact, these are another two ships we may do a comparison on with Planet Mongoose, as they are both good in different ways and yet very close in operation.

 

[Iron Domokun]

A Snipe packs a considerable close-range punch: two plasma-F and a plasma-G. In SFB terms, sixty damage points vs a War Eagle's fifty. In ACTA terms, probably six or seven Attack Dice. The War Eagle's torpedo is much longer ranged though. I think that the combination of Armour and Cloak will give the old-school ships a lot of staying power.