ACtA:SF - Down-firing and the Scout trait?

[Nerroth]

Hello.


Apologies in advance if this is already covered in the book (which I am still waiting for); but is there any sort of allowance for the down-firing of certain weapons?

For example, in FC (and SFB) one can down-fire a phaser-1 or phaser-2 as a phaser-3. Usually, this is mainly useful only as a means of preserving power, which is not all that relevant here.

However, where it is important is on ships equipped with special sensors; on which the firing of most weapons risks blinding sensor channels. As a further example, the firing of a phaser-1 as a phaser-1 will blind a single sensor channel, but the firing of a phaser-3 (or the down-firing of a ph1 as a ph-3, for that matter) will not. (Bases, having built-in positional stabilizers, don't have this problem, and can fire their full weapons suite while operating their special sensors normally.)

So, should there be any battle scouts (or other ships with special sensors, such as survey cruisers) added to ACtA:SF at some future point, would they be able to down-fire their phaser-1s (or phaser-2s) as phaser-3s as it stands; or might they need a new rule to cover this once they hit the tabletop?

 

[Da Boss]

This came up when I made up a "subhunter" Scout armed with "heavy" wepaons - ie disruptors

At present weapon firing has no effect on the Scout trait or its effectiveness RAW.

The only things with Scout in main rulebook are Stations (and then only with the errata) - but I would think they will apear in the first supplement.

It may be that there is no need for the downfiring issue to arise .....

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

Not really a point of concern, as Phasers KILL drones if they hit, and are assumes to engage at appropriate range. As, if fired defensively, can't be used offensively, no other concerns, and your not tracking power.

No real need. Also phasers more effective vs Plasma, as 1AD of ANY strength of Phaser will kill 1AD of Plasma (unlike in SFB/FC, where damage is totalled and the halved before coming off Plasma strength). Phaser 3's are great point defence weapons in this game.

 

[Myrm]

Assuming they are not just going to ignore the issue for simplicity.

Add a Trait:
Scout Channels (X)
This vessel has only a limited amount of resources for scout functions. The vessel may fire <Insert permitted weapons here> with no restrictions. However the vessel may only use its Scout Channel rating in AD of other weapons and use any effects of their Scout trait in the same turn. Any Phaser AD on the vessel may voluntarily be fired as a Phaser 3 and so not count toward the Scout Channel limit.

A quick application of that delightful element handwavium can determine that bases have enough power and channels to ignore the restriction.

 

[Iron Domokun]

Myrm, the SFU defines that bases don't blind their own channels anyway, so the handwavium is built-in.

Personally, I'd rather simply see the whole blinding channels business ignored. The "official" ships with the Scout trait will not have heavy weapons for the most part (yes, I know about the SSCS Goliath), so it won't matter much.

 

[Myrm]

Myrm, the SFU defines that bases don't blind their own channels anyway, so the handwavium is built-in.

Playing SFB for over 25 years (albeit casually) and new stuff to me still crops up, eh

Personally, I'd rather simply see the whole blinding channels business ignored. The "official" ships with the Scout trait will not have heavy weapons for the most part (yes, I know about the SSCS Goliath), so it won't matter much.

To some extent that's why I was doing a simple 'X weapons can fire' rather than having to get into a complicated system of 'doing X scout function and it suddenly stops when you fire' routine.

While I suggested a trait that I felt pretty much covered it, I could also see a simple restriction of 'may only fire one weapon system' being put in and actually being a better design solution, albeit slightly less of an accurate SFU simulation. That sort of simple resolution gets the flavour of Scout channels with the simplicity of ACtA and covers the weird scouts and means you can ignore complicated rules for downgrading firing of Phasers to Ph3.

 

[Nerroth]

Personally, I was thinking it could be easier still; simply say that any ship (not base) with the Scout trait has the choice of either firing (or down-firing) its sensor-complaint weapons and keeping the scout trait for that turn, or firing "normally" and foregoing the Scout trait for that turn altogether.

Battle scouts (and survey cruisers) are supposed to make the choice between weapons and sensors in FC and SFB; it might give them too much of an advatage if this isn't accounted for in some form in ACtA:SF.

 

[Myrm]

Battle scouts (and survey cruisers) are supposed to make the choice between weapons and sensors in FC and SFB; it might give them too much of an advatage if this isn't accounted for in some form in ACtA:SF.

Agreed - by me at least - although having played lot of ACtA scouting and shootin occuring is balancable so the proposal of 'ignore it' is viable in gameplay terms, just you step a bit away from SFU - just how many of these sorts of vessels are there, this is the kind of General War vessel I simply cannot think of off the top of my head

So, so far we have:
A) A simple Fire or Scout option
B) A Fire or Scout choice, with the option to downfire Phasers (keep to phasers?)
C) A single weapons system fire allowed to cover the concept of multiple channels
D) A Trait of some kind that introduces aspects of limited fire, varied scout channels and downfiring
E) Simply ignore it and just live with scouting and firing

 

[McKinstry]

I like keeping it very simple and just give scouts a lighter armament.

 

[Rambler]

Actually to make it simpler still just stated that a ship based scout can only use its Scout Channles if it does not fire any of its weapons Offensively. Scouts can use all weapon systems Defensively with no Penalty.

That covers it quite well and matches the intent in the SFU really well. Survey Ships can pick are they Scouts or Cruisers this turn based on if they fire heavy wepons or not. It even works well on Drone Cruisers if they are doing a Drone Bombardment Mission you are not going to be close enough to see them using Special Snsors for Targeting information and if they are in the middle of a fleet they are acting as a either a Scout or a Cruiser not both at the same time.

EDIT: Space Control Ships and Space Dominion Ships are big enough they probably can squeek by usning the same exception that bases use since they probably have the Frame and the Power to pull it off.

 

[Finlos]

Drones shouldn't blind sensor channels either, or at least they don't in SFB (not sure about FC).

 

[Rambler]

Yes in SFB drones are a zero energy based system so scouts can use them but remember in ACTASF drones are affected by power drain due to the KISS principle. So if scouts get "blinded" the simple thing is just say no offensive weapons of any kind while using Scout traits.

 

[Da Boss]

Well it looks like we should soon see how Ship Scouts work in ACTA:SF as ADBs Captains log has this in it:

Captain's Log #44 includes: .....various stuff.........seven scouts for A Call to Arms....

I am not sure if it is out yet or not but you can order it

for more info see:

EDIT

Ignore this - the ships are apparently not in the document...see later posts.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Its out but as far as I can see, it doesn't have the scouts.

I have queried this since I bought it just for those seven ACTA scouts.

Waiting for an answer.

Unless they are very well hidden and I just cannot find them.

 

[Da Boss]

let us know how that goes if you could please

 

[Captain Jonah]

Mr Sprange what is the policy here. If the scouts are there its a paid for ADB product so I don't want to deny them income by posting stuff here.

Will they be posted here on the Planet mongoose page as they are offical ACTA-SFB ships, will there be an ACTA special, yours for just £1 for just the ACTA ships. Lets face it, those scout ships are going to be "very" popular :lol:

Presuming they are there and I'm just going blind that is.

 

[scoutdad]

Nope. Not in there.
The original plan was to do a preview of the ACTA: SF scouts - 7 of them, one for each empire.

ADB had someone working on stat blocks for them, but then Matthew requested that ADB not put them in that issue of CL.
Which was good ofr us Fed Comm guys as the pages dedicated to ACTA ships went instead to more Fed Comm ship cards.

Maybe they will be in CL45? Or if not, then they will definitely be in ACTA2: Battleships.

[edit] Presumably, the reason was similar to that indicated above. The "preview" scouts are the same as those included in the play test rules for ACTA2. Which means there'd be two versions of them floating around... or the ADB fans would have them sooner than the Mongoose fans... or Mongoose would have to design 7 differnet scouts for ACTA2 and then you've still only have a part ofthe fan base with access to 7 scout stat blocks... or, well the list goes on.
End result: No ACTA scouts were printed in CL 44.

 

[Da Boss]

Hmm glad I did not buy it then and hopefully they will change the product description....

I guess they could have left them and labeled them as "playtest ships" and at the same time released them over here as a cheap pdf or even free....... might have got some useful feedback from the other players........

 

[Captain Jonah]

Probably more than a few people bought CL44 under false pretences then. Can you post something over on the ADB zone about changing the description or is it too late now.

Without knowing better all us fanatical ACTA-SFB types see "Seven Scouts for ACTA" and get all excited and spend money and things. The money's not so much the problem, its the whole getting excited, opening the book, reading it twice and finding no scouts.

I was working out all sorts of nasty things to do with long range photons and scout rerolls ready for having them.

 

[Finlos]

I was working out all sorts of nasty things to do with long range photons and scout rerolls ready for having them.

:shock: I hadn't considered the full implication of that! SF1 is barely on the shelves and I already want SF2 :twisted:

All Fed ships (in SF1) except the New Jersey battlecruiser have their photons as one weapon system so including a scout in my fleet brings hit probability at 15" no less from 1/3 to 5/9, with a 2nd chance to roll a '6'. I like it!