About the Narn...

[Tzarevitch]

To the original poster:

I think you are translating your personal difficulty winning with them to the fleet as a whole. The Narn may not be to your playstyle. To be sure, the Narn do have some problems from a game-design point of view but they are pretty decent all around.

1. The G'Quan. It really hurts having your iconic battle level ship so weak. It needs 6d of beam. I really don't care if the e-mines or secondaries are reduced to compensate. I don't know what is up with the designers insisting it is fine yet most who play with them or against them says they aren't. The heavy lasers are what you see in the show ripping things apart and even in the game it is the only real weapon they have as the stupid e-mins are one-shot. Plus compared to everyone else's battle-level ships, they aren't a lot more durable to compensate. *shrug*

2. Short range secondaries. This is a pain on the big ships. They have a lot of dice but they are so slow it is near impossible to get to use them on an enemy that doesn't have to enter range. The smaller ships don't have as much of a problem as they are quick enough to get in range.

3. T'Rakk: I agree with you on this ship. Its firepower is very poor. It is tough and quick and agile enough to get somewhere, but doesn't pack enough punch to do anything scary once it does. Interceptors render it useless.

4. Rongoth/Rothan: They suck. They did in previous editions and they suck again now. I never liked them and they aren't iconic shops so I don't really care too much if they get revised.

Your complaint about crits overly hurting the Narn isn't really valid. Crits affect ALL larger ships not just the Narn. They are in fact much more problematic for other races as the Narn have a lot of spare attack dice, they have weapons in all arcs and they have generally high crews and hit points. Narn also aren't dependent on special systems for defense that can get knocked off line. The Narn are in fact one of the races least affected by crits.

Personally, I also think you are loosing too much from your fleet by taking a host of Sho'crap as initiative sinks. The sole reason those things exist is to fish for crits. They are scary in low priority games but not at all beyond that. Use a T'Loth for init sinks like Katadder says or just accept that a small ship will not be able to get its boresight off all the time. It isn't the end of the world so long as the biggies can get their boresights off.

Tzarevitch

 

[Rawwar]

You address the original poster but you answer my gripes.

In the games where I've took the init sinking Sho'Kovs I've done ok.

If we're agreed on the Rongoth, Rothan & T'Rakk then that's three throw away ships at Skirmish level.

My problem is not winning with the Narn it's how I've got to play them if I hope to win with them. That is completely out of character with the race as shown in the series and anything else I've read.

The game also revolves around bringing as much of your firepower to bare and to get it off before your opponent does. My opponents aim to do the same thing if I don't I'm looking at dead ships. Also I've had ships with fire only on a 4+, -4 to speed and others on top that I can't remember, basically it was just floating about waiting to be killed. How much use would a T'Loth be with such crits? Also you say the T'Rakk is poor but two T'Rakks have more firepower and the same number of hits as a T'Loth. Ok they cripple earlier but they're faster with two turns and you get two for a T'Loth. I don't see how anyone can recommend a T'Loth after agreeing that T'Rakks are poor?

The Sho'Kovs might be fishing for crits but that's their secondary job, their first is to allow me to squadron better ships together while still having the sink. That way I get a telling blow in first.

 

[Ripple]

The narn suffer more total crits as they have no defense that stops hits. This is what the narn are referring to with their crit weakness. Given each crit can take a secondary weapon up to real damage potential, they are often killed easily in the mid range.

Active defenses that stop hits are much much more powerful than a few extra damage points. Trait loss is an issue, but still nothing compared to the sheer damage increase of taking twice the crits of a ship with dodge 4+.

Ripple

 

[GhostRecon]

I see a good deal of fleet lists here, for Narn, which seem to over rely on Sho'Kov's, Sho'Kar's, and Ka'Tocs.

To analyze,

1 G'Karith
4 Ka'Tocs
1 Sho'Kar
1 Dag'Kar
4 Sho'Kovs

You really, really lose a ton of firepower here, and for what purpose?

The Ka'Tocs are decent at best, and this is largely because their 1x45 turns make them far too sluggish for decent maneuvering, and they have pretty poor damage for a Narn ship. Ultimately, they are a decent ship, but too poor to serve as the backbone of a fleet. Their firepower seems formidable on paper, 1 AD ot TD beams isn't too reliable to serve as the primacy of your fleet (Ironically, using Burger's "E" beam rule of 1-2 = Miss, 3-5 = 1 hit, 6 = 3 hit makes beams so much better and more balanced, while still allowing for misses and high numbers of hits at the same time).

The Thentus is a vastly superior skirmish choice, with the Ka'Toc/T'rakk tied for a somewhat distant second. The Thentus has twin-linked secondaries, 2 AD of Forward Arc Beams, 2 AD of DD boresight beams, and 2x45 turns, making it a much better ship than either the Ka'Toc or the T'rakk.

The T'rakk makes for a good initiative sink, but its utility really depends on which fleet you're fighting. If you're fighting a fleet with high hull and/or interceptors, leave the T'rakk at home, as it'll be worse than useless. Against anything with a low hull, it'll prove extremely useful.

A different list interpretation:

5 Thentus
2 Ka'Toc
4 Sho'Kov
1 Dag'kar

Or drop 2 Thentus, take another Dag'kar.

Keep the Sho'Kov's back to plink at single or stray ships with the torpedoes, using them to sink for the rest of the fleet. Keep the Ka'tocs on the flanks, attacking into the enemy, and use them to hunt in a pack and to attack one ship. Thentus' gang up on single enemy ships while maximizing arc firepower. With their 2x45 turns and forward arc normal beams, they should always be firing some form of beam weaponry every turn once they get into range. Dag'kar does what a Dag'kar does, though be sure to lame it up by CBD between E-mine salvoes.

 

[Tzarevitch]

The narn suffer more total crits as they have no defense that stops hits. This is what the narn are referring to with their crit weakness. Given each crit can take a secondary weapon up to real damage potential, they are often killed easily in the mid range.

Active defenses that stop hits are much much more powerful than a few extra damage points. Trait loss is an issue, but still nothing compared to the sheer damage increase of taking twice the crits of a ship with dodge 4+.

Ripple

They suffer more total crits than the races which can wholesale prevent hits but they are far from alone in that area and at least they have high hp and crew and extensive weapon arays to let them absorb crits and the side effects.

Shields (Shadows and ISA), Stealth (Minbari) and Dodge (ISA and Drazi) have the best crit-prevention systems. Gaim and EA have extensive interceptors on almost all of their fleet but interceptors are limited at hit prevention. That's about it. Everyone else's crit/hit defense is limited to a handful of ships or they have none at all.

Inability to stop hits/crits far from unique to the Narn. Most Centauri can't prevent hits either, nor can most Brakiri or Vree or Vorlons for that matter. They eat crits like everone else. That isn't a reason why someone would have difficulty winning with the Narn otherwise players who fly those other races would be having problems too.

In order to argue that the Narn fleet is the problem one has to show there is a problem unique to the Narn or at least near unique to them.

Tzarevitch

 

[Jim?]

In order to argue that the Narn fleet is the problem one has to show there is a problem unique to the Narn or at least near unique to them.

Tzarevitch

You missed the greatest defence against crit death from the list:- Not being shot at.

Vorlons:- reasonably quick, and good turns. High PL:- Extreme range, high Init.
Vree:- Super Manouverable
Centauri:- Maximus. Most of their ships are very rapid and agile.

Not forgetting:-
Brakiri:- Most of their good ships have either interceptors (Brokados, Ikorta/Brikorta) shields (Brivoki) or extreme range (Kaliva), OK stealth (Shakara). Admittedly, the rest of their list is pretty weak, so I don't often use it.

The Narn are the only slow fleet with no active defences at all (exception:- G'Vrahn). Combine their lack of speed with short ranged secondaries, and the problem becomes more severe. They are *easy* to outflank and pick off piece by piece as they have no cover on their flanks with their short ranged guns.

Although I don't win many games *with* Narn in 2e, I've *never* lost against a Narn fleet in 2e, either. That should say something about my knowledge of their play style, btw.

 

[katadder]

well as most poeple think frazis are crap now why dont you use them as interceptors?
I agree thentus is what of the better ships at skirmish, would probably use alot of these. the sho'kar is also not a bad skirmish scout having a DD beam, a fighter, being agile and stealth even if it is low stealth.

as for the t'rakk versus t'loth idea. yes the t'rakk has more turns and slightly more firepower, however lose one and you lose half the firepower. after 34 damage a t'loth keeps going. also you miss the major point of a t'loth - its 12 troops. these ships force the enemy to keep moving faster than half speed or risk being boarded. they make great damage/init sinks and also force people to move more than they otherwise would want to.

 

[Rawwar]

I have used Frazis as interceptors in the past on my G'Quons.

Looking at the rules for boarding actions, first the enemy have to be moving half speed then they have to end up within 4" of my T'Loth (if I had one) to stand a chance of being boarded. Considering how rarely (I can only think of one occasion) my opponents come within 8" of my ships for me to fire my secondary weapons, and that their ship has to be moving less than half speed, how realistic a threat is this.

Take those Demos' for instance. His shortest ranged weapon is 12," He only has to move 8" to fore fill the criteria not to be boarded and to get both his turns in, even after all that he has to finish within 4" of a troop laden T'Loth to be in any danger at all.

To pull it off you would still want init sinks to force him to move first in the hope he slips up. In your situation where you have eight ships apiece this outcome is severely reduced. Also look at the Balvarian Carrier our friend Da Boss mentioned, for his Raid point he gets +1 Command and a Fleet Carrier. That now means that he has +2 to his initiative and he can recycle his fighters, this is a perfect example of where other races get more at the same priority level.

Then you have to factor in to this that the advantages the Narns are supposed to have are negated by the basic rules themselves, namely the crit system. If my reading of the rule is right we’ve just got nerfed by the new fighter rules too. Now not only do extra DP’s and crew do nothing to protect the Narn from crits there is now a negative side to them too.

Do you want your Narn fleet close to the enemy? No because you’ll get out shot and completely outmaneuvered. I just don’t see how taking a brick, sorry a T’Loth will remedy the issues I’ve found through fighting with the Narn. This is using the Centari model, the race that took the Narn to the stars, gave them cause to fight and taught them all they know and they just don’t compete.

 

[katadder]

well it works for me, so cant complain and is why I own 4 t'loths
you can always bring t'ranns and bring 8 frazis plus a damage/init sink.

 

[Rawwar]

Ok so explain to me how it works as an init sink when you're allowed a maximum of eight ships?

For the same Raid point the Centari can take a Balvarian gain +2 to their initiative, have better fighters & the ability to recycle them.

Are you trying to tell me a Centari player can't ensure he has eight ships too?

 

[H]

I'm sorry, if your fighter is crap use it as an interceptor?

um, but why should what was in 1st ed a premier strike fighter now be relegated to an interceptor support role? doesn't seem very fair.
overall I think the Narn are on the weak side with the best warship the game can offer! so in large engagements the Narn are great as they have either a G'Vrahn which is a brilliant ship, or a Bin'Tak which is still superb, but a long way behind a G'Vrahn.

at patrol, the fighters are a bit sucky, the cutters are actually decent enough. At Skirmish, why anyone would take anything over a Thentus i don't get. The Thentus for me is a solid little ship, and the forward beam and two turns makes it a lot easier to play as you don't always have to line up your other Boresight beam. the other choices seem lacking especially if you compare them to the Demos!! (mind you, my money is on the demos over the Thentus) at raid, they have in my opinion ok choices, but nothing that stands out. The Var'Nic is again a great ship, but the rest seem too specialist. at battle, we all know the problems, the poor Narn have poor choices. the G'Quan, one of the most stunning ships in the shiw has 3 varients, and all are sub par to their opponents. at war, we know, they rock, and at Armageddon, the KBT is awesome, up ther ewith the Adira and Victory.

this kind of makes the Narn a fleet with loads of low level choices, but the best ones are at war and armagedon?! the biggest arguments for are. . .
and against. . .

Lots of dice. . . yup, and nearly all vanilla at very short range
lots of hitpoints. . . compared to what? the Avioki, um no, a couple of extra damage boxes means nothing really, the only ship with an excessive number is the T'Loth
tough hulls . . again, compared to what, a maxumus has hull 6 at skirmish, can you count how many Narn do?
e-mines - yup great, as long as you are facing ISA or Minbari, and apart from the big boys, that Dag Kar will die if anyone looks at it a bit funny.

I don't think the Narn are a particularly long way from a decent fleet, but they have no defenses (g'Vrahn aside), so are often hit with crits sooner, they are mostly slow, so take an age to bring those stupid 8" guns into play, then they take forever to turn around. . They are far from being the worst fleet in the game, but they are not on a par with the other "Big 4." I don't think they are as bad as some people make out, but they ain't a fleet that are easy to play, they can be very inforgiving and you have to work a lot harder with them than a lot of other fleets to make them work. as someone said, you can play them, but not to the feel of the show.

 

[Jim?]

Yeah, the Thentus is a solid little ship, but rather short ranged. It's primary beam only hits out at 15", and it's burst beam at 12". Combine that with speed 8, and if you don't have a Dag'Kar lure in play, you can easily end up not firing them for two turns, while longer ranged ships tear them apart.

It's the main reason I take Ka'Tocs, speed 10 and 20" range on their primary beam... to be honest, I would rather have their speeds reversed, as then the Thentus could get in more quickly, and the Ka'Toc would find it slightly easier to get it's boresights in

I think a decent, quick fix for the Narn (which would at least stop them from being outflanked rediculously easily, which is paramout for a slow fleet) would be to up the ranges on the Skirmish/Raid secondaries to 10", and on the bigger ships up to 12". Change the Frazis guns from (4 dice at range 2) to (3 dice at range 3) Which would let them be a reasonable anti ship fighter again, that could cover the Narn flanks against fast moving stuff. It wouldn't be on par with a Pikitos or a T-Bolt, but would be an improvement over nearly useless. Up the Gorith to dogfight +2, speed 12 and drop it to 1 AD (it's meant to be on par with a sentri!)

Possibly give the G'Quan 5 dice of beam, then give it 60 damage points to make it nearly as tough as an Avioki. Any of this sound bad/unreasonable?

 

[Rawwar]

that Dag Kar will die if anyone looks at it a bit funny.

Thanks for the laugh that was great. :lol:

I agree they're not far off but do lag behind which means you're on the back foot before you even start.

I can't even kill Bluestars with one E Mine (triple damage ones included), when I'm looking for that follow up fire to pour more heat on them it's just not there. Then there's the fact that once the E Mines are gone you're wide open and the fact that when the ISA get in amongst your fleet you get that sinking feeling of 'game over.' I wouldn't have any expectations of beating the ISA in a 5 point Raid game and that just sucks.

I agree with you on War and Armageddon but I find I have to fight more games at much lower levels which are very tough.



[/quote]

 

[Tzarevitch]

In order to argue that the Narn fleet is the problem one has to show there is a problem unique to the Narn or at least near unique to them.

Tzarevitch

You missed the greatest defence against crit death from the list:- Not being shot at.

Vorlons:- reasonably quick, and good turns. High PL:- Extreme range, high Init.
Vree:- Super Manouverable
Centauri:- Maximus. Most of their ships are very rapid and agile.


Not forgetting:-
Brakiri:- Most of their good ships have either interceptors (Brokados, Ikorta/Brikorta) shields (Brivoki) or extreme range (Kaliva), OK stealth (Shakara). Admittedly, the rest of their list is pretty weak, so I don't often use it.

The Narn are the only slow fleet with no active defences at all (exception:- G'Vrahn). Combine their lack of speed with short ranged secondaries, and the problem becomes more severe. They are *easy* to outflank and pick off piece by piece as they have no cover on their flanks with their short ranged guns.

Although I don't win many games *with* Narn in 2e, I've *never* lost against a Narn fleet in 2e, either. That should say something about my knowledge of their play style, btw.

I have some disagreement.
Brakiri: Most of their ships do not have interceptors. A few do. Almost all of those are carriers and/or at war level. One has shields (at armageddon) and their 1 scout has stealth. That isn't a big deal. The big difference between the Narn and the Brakiri is Boresight not active defense. The Narn will also generally outrange the Brakiri. Most Brakiri can't beat range 20 and only a handful beat 24. Neither fleet can count much on active defenses.

Vorlons: Have neither range nor speed as a defense. They are however a bit more agile in general but we aren't talking Shadow or ISA maneuverability. The fastest vorlon ship is speed 10. That is no faster than the narn. Their range also is shorter than the Narn not longer. They need to get to war level to get to range 30. The Narn can do it at raid. And they all have 1 weapon arc.

Vree: SM is not really defense since they can't do it at high speed like the shadows. It doesn't stop them from getting hit it it simply keeps them from being boresighted too often. They need to get to short range to dodge out of the FA arc while on SM due to the speed reduction. Also, Vree have to beware of reducing speed if a T'Loth is nearby. Vree also have some of the shortest range secondaries of any race I know of.

Centauri: They aren't that agile. That is a myth. They have the similar mix of 1/45 and 2/45 and lumbering as anyone else (although a couple have the agile trait). Narn relying on Ka'Tocs to defend against fast-moving Centauri are what causes the Centauri to look like a fleet of ballerinas. Centauri are a bit more manouverable in general but not hugely so.

My point again is that the Narn are not alone in having no real good defense against getting hit and critted. That isn't a reason why someone should be having a problem as several fleets are in basically the same boat. The Narn are a bit slower than average and turn a bit worse than average but that isn't decisive against most enemies. Coupled with boresight this can cause problems that one has to work around. The Narn are by no means a poor fleet though.

Tzarevitch

 

[Tzarevitch]

Yeah, the Thentus is a solid little ship, but rather short ranged. It's primary beam only hits out at 15", and it's burst beam at 12". Combine that with speed 8, and if you don't have a Dag'Kar lure in play, you can easily end up not firing them for two turns, while longer ranged ships tear them apart.

It's the main reason I take Ka'Tocs, speed 10 and 20" range on their primary beam... to be honest, I would rather have their speeds reversed, as then the Thentus could get in more quickly, and the Ka'Toc would find it slightly easier to get it's boresights in

I think a decent, quick fix for the Narn (which would at least stop them from being outflanked rediculously easily, which is paramout for a slow fleet) would be to up the ranges on the Skirmish/Raid secondaries to 10", and on the bigger ships up to 12". Change the Frazis guns from (4 dice at range 2) to (3 dice at range 3) Which would let them be a reasonable anti ship fighter again, that could cover the Narn flanks against fast moving stuff. It wouldn't be on par with a Pikitos or a T-Bolt, but would be an improvement over nearly useless. Up the Gorith to dogfight +2, speed 12 and drop it to 1 AD (it's meant to be on par with a sentri!)

Possibly give the G'Quan 5 dice of beam, then give it 60 damage points to make it nearly as tough as an Avioki. Any of this sound bad/unreasonable?

I would have no problem with any of those changes.
Gorith: I have long insisited the Gorith is crap. It is useless compared to the Frazi. It loses half the frazi's firepower for a +1 dogfight? That is useless.

Frazi: That is actually a good suggestion to fix the Frazi. I don't think the frazi is exactly poor but it isn't all that wonderful either. The new AF rules hit it hard.

Improved secondaries: I think 10" would help a lot. 12 might be excessive. 10 would work though or 10 on the light ion cannon but keep the light pulse cannon at 8 or something.

G'quan: I could deal with the damage remaining if it got 6d of beam. The beam is the weapon the ship uses all the time in the show. That is its most feared weapon so why is it only 4d? That is no better than the Var'nic. 6d and increase the secondary range would make the G'Quan a great ship and would work wonders for improving the Narn list.

Tzarevitch

 

[tschuma]

I hav eplayed Narn the last 2 weeks after playing Brakiri for the last coupleof months. the first game was a 5 point Skirmish against the Vorlons, and I only lost by 2 point, 25-23. I had a Thentus, 2 Ka'Tan, 1 Ka'Toc, and 4 Sho'Kov's. Very close game. The Thentus is a nice ship at Skirmish Level and as suggested could use 10inchs of movement instead os 8.

The 2nd game was 7 point Skirmish against eh ISA and I lost big in the end, but I had a 1-6 Crit against my remaining Thentus and with a crew 3, could not remove it. I did kill a Whitestar after it lost it Adaptive Armour with a e-mine from my Dag'Kar, but the 4 flights of Thunderbolts, did it in. I like the T'Rakk , but it has no firepower to speak of. I don't think the 2 I had on the table actually killed anything.

I agree, make the G'Quan 6 AD beam and I can live with the hit points. CBD until you get into knife fighting range and then let loose the secondaries.

After playing 2 games with the Narn, the Brakiri really need a Patrol Level ship, not a 2 for, but just one. If they had this I might sell my Narn. Just kidding!

tschuma

 

[Rawwar]

Just curious. How did your opponent get T Bolts in an ISA fleet?

Cos our ISA player insists he can't take alternative fighters.

 

[GhostRecon]

Just curious. How did your opponent get T Bolts in an ISA fleet?

Cos our ISA player insists he can't take alternative fighters.

ISA can take Thunderbolts and Auroras as Patrol choices, and the Victory-class Destroyer carries 3 Auroras and 3 Thunderbolts as per its normal compliment of fighters. Whitestars, however, can't trade their Nials out for Thunderbolts or Auroras (Why you'd want to, leaves me confused. Take T-bolts for what? Better anti-shipping? Use the Whitestar for that and the Nials to keep fighters, one of the Whitestar's weaknesses, at bay.)

Yeah, the Thentus is a solid little ship, but rather short ranged. It's primary beam only hits out at 15", and it's burst beam at 12". Combine that with speed 8, and if you don't have a Dag'Kar lure in play, you can easily end up not firing them for two turns, while longer ranged ships tear them apart.

It's the main reason I take Ka'Tocs, speed 10 and 20" range on their primary beam... to be honest, I would rather have their speeds reversed, as then the Thentus could get in more quickly, and the Ka'Toc would find it slightly easier to get it's boresights in Smile

I think a decent, quick fix for the Narn (which would at least stop them from being outflanked rediculously easily, which is paramout for a slow fleet) would be to up the ranges on the Skirmish/Raid secondaries to 10", and on the bigger ships up to 12". Change the Frazis guns from (4 dice at range 2) to (3 dice at range 3) Which would let them be a reasonable anti ship fighter again, that could cover the Narn flanks against fast moving stuff. It wouldn't be on par with a Pikitos or a T-Bolt, but would be an improvement over nearly useless. Up the Gorith to dogfight +2, speed 12 and drop it to 1 AD (it's meant to be on par with a sentri!)

Possibly give the G'Quan 5 dice of beam, then give it 60 damage points to make it nearly as tough as an Avioki. Any of this sound bad/unreasonable?

I would agree with all of these changes except for any modification to speed. Speed 8 on a Thentus is actually better than speed 10, because it enables the Thentus to turn in a significantly tighter arc than a faster vessel, which makes its 2x45 turns incredibly beneficial. Further, its become established that Narn simply don't have fast ships, and the Thentus is an example of that. Narn arn't supposed to be as fast or maneuverable as the Centauri or the ISA.

As an EA Crusade player who finds himself fighting a Thentus-happy Narn player the most often, I find the Thentus to be an extremely effective ship as it is. It's tough, it's slow, and it's beams have pretty decent range. The series of ships at Skirmish level with guns that shoot longer than 15 inches is fairly short. Of course, their use has some planning entailed in order to make them live up to their maximum potential, but what ship doesn't or shouldn't? Simply put, I've found the Thentus, especially with the 2E rules, to be wildly effective, often far out of proportion to its FAP. I've lost Marathons and Apollos to nothing more than two or three Thentus' who managed to bracket them. However, because my group now uses Burger's beam rules (1-2 = Miss, 3-5 = 1 hit, 6 = 3 hits) we've found the whole beam dynamic much more balanced; even the Thentus, while still very effective, isn't over blowing its own FAP level.

I think 10 inches across the board, with some exceptions, would be very appropriate and balance out the Narn fleet in general, and I've always advocated increasing the effectiveness of the G'quan series of ships. The Battle and War level Narn ships, in particular, need their Secondaries increased to 10 inch range, at the least.

Frazis are a joke for my Narn player, he largely uses them just to tie up my swarms of Starfuies for as long as possible, finishing off the stragglers with his secondaries. The proposed 3" 3 AD would probably make them more useful.

 

[Rawwar]

ISA can take Thunderbolts and Auroras as Patrol choices, and the Victory-class Destroyer carries 3 Auroras and 3 Thunderbolts as per its normal compliment of fighters. Whitestars, however, can't trade their Nials out for Thunderbolts or Auroras (Why you'd want to, leaves me confused. Take T-bolts for what? Better anti-shipping? Use the Whitestar for that and the Nials to keep fighters, one of the Whitestar's weaknesses, at bay.)

As I said I'm just curious how it was done at this level and why?

I know the other stuff & agree with the points you make.

 

[Rawwar]

Well following the boxing addage (spelling?) opponents make fights I have challenged Skavendan to a Narn v EA encounter. Not because I think I will win but because I think it'll be a brawl that could go either way.