About the Narn...
- Thread starter Jim?
- Start date
"However, because my group now uses Burger's beam rules (1-2 = Miss, 3-5 = 1 hit, 6 = 3 hits) we've found the whole beam dynamic much more balanced; even the Thentus, while still very effective, isn't over blowing its own FAP level."
How is the beam system working out? Are you also comparing hits with this system to what is in the rules to determine the difference?
tschuma
How is the beam system working out? Are you also comparing hits with this system to what is in the rules to determine the difference?
tschuma
tschuma said:
He can legaly purchase them
"Thunderbolt Starfury Flight Patrol (Wing of Four Flights)"
But I don't know if he will, Hard to say which is more worth while a wing of fighters or a blue star! And as the blue is accurate it really is a hard choice with a 3+ dodge and a death and glory option the Blue is possibly better.
We will have to see how he fairs when the raiders try and ran sack him with a zillion fighters in the campaign eh?
Should certainly make for an interesting fight.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
skavendan said:
He can also swap any Furies he has on his VCDs for T'bolts, but not vice versa
LBH
lastbesthope
Mongoose
tschuma said:
IF (And I'm not sure I trust them completely) I've run my numbers correctly, Burger's system effectively halfs the average number of hits from a Beam weapon and prevents more than 3 hits per BEam AD. The halfing the number of hits could be done by halfing the number of dice instead and still using the rules as written I think, although that would leave the potential for an extreme number of hits.
LBH
Whats wrong with frazi's? I had one take out 4 sentri's %$$&^
4 AD is pretty good, Hull 5, Being Centauri i'd really don't like them since they make a mess of my fwd arc only ships. I always make sure i can get them. That might be why they seem bad as they are a real danger and get shot at lots.
4 AD is pretty good, Hull 5, Being Centauri i'd really don't like them since they make a mess of my fwd arc only ships. I always make sure i can get them. That might be why they seem bad as they are a real danger and get shot at lots.
Sorry LBH but you are mistaken - the average number of hits is the same but the variance is much reduced (although not as much as the obvious - "get one automatic hit" would do!). It also has the side effect of reducing the odds of getting zero hits (currently for a White Star 0.25 but with Burger's method it's 0.11).lastbesthope said:
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Yeah, thought I'd done the numbers wrong when I got that answer, ah well, probably proves it's past my bedtime.
Night all
LBH
Night all
LBH
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Rechecked my numbers, you're right Average hit of 1 either way.
LBH
LBH
GhostRecon
Mongoose
tschuma said:
I'm not entirely sure what you mean. We've played quite a few games with the "old" 2E beam rules, and found the Beams to be terribly, terribly variable; either they fizzle and completely miss, or do 28 hits with a 2AD Thentus beam.
This current system, which I'll just call the "Burger Beam System" (BBS!) for simplicity makes Beams, my group feels, incredibly balanced, and MUCH more entertaining to play with. There is still a chance of random, "high hits" beam shots (Such as the time I got three sixes with my Tara'lin, destroying a somewhat damaged Thentus in one salvo!) but the results are more... consistent. They're still random, but not wildly and variably so. My group swears and firmly believes they've brought tactics and strategy back to the beam mechanics. No more random gambling with beams, praying for a whiff of a massively overpowered and random avalanche of hits.
As for a calculation of "average hits" over a game... we'd have to play like 20 games with each rule to provide decent statistics for that.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Just a quick top of the head calculation, Burger's system gives you a 1 in 6 chance of scoring 3 hits from from 1 AD Beam, the rules as written give you a 1 in 8 chance of producing 3 hits from the same 1 AD.
Also, the BBS obviously limits the runaway potential for multiple vast numbers of hits. Me, I think I'll stick with the rules as written.
LBH
Also, the BBS obviously limits the runaway potential for multiple vast numbers of hits. Me, I think I'll stick with the rules as written.
LBH
Rawwar said:
one average narn e-mine should kill a bluestar - 6AD AP TD - average of 4 hits, avverage of 12 damage, or even take a bulkhead for 10 damage, halved for AA equals dead Bluestar.
Narn maybe do need something, 10" pulse weapons would be a favourite of mine as the TL weapons already got upgraded from weak this edition to previous. Would also increase the damage of the big ships like g'quans and bin'tak.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
katadder said:
The beam on the G'Quan should be forward arc, since on-screen it is clearly not a boresight weapon. If a Whitestar gets F arc so as to better "simulate" its on-screen performance even though they are never seen firing off boresight, the G'Quan (which is seen firing at an angle) should definitely get F arc. It wouldn't even need downgrading in AD, since it is already 2 dice down (and 1 aft beam!) on an Omega and as I understand the logic, boresight beams were supposed to have more AD than F arc.
I also really don't like the OS e-mine (or any OS weapons for that matter) - it renders the G'Quan rather superfluous compared to a G'Lan which has the mag gun as a decent usable secondary (well, often primary due to boresight!), and the reduced range is often not an issue since many fleets can close from 30" to 18" rather quickly.
At present though, given a choice between spending a Battle FAP on a single G'Quan (and it's variants) or a Var'Nic and a Dar'Kar, for in-game performance I'd take the latter over the former any day of the week. However, since the Narn Heavy Cruiser hull is so iconic, I really want to take the G'Quan.
Although I don't expect any of these suggestions to get anywhere, I really hope that P&P sees the Narn get a little lovin'!
Regards,
Dave
I do not play Narn. I will only tell you what my youngest brother does, because he rarely loses when he plays Narn.
He takes the tough ships with lots of AD in multiple arcs, and then moves them across the table as fast as he can make them go... and cuts the opposing fleet apart with massed firepower.
We dread facing him because he usually beats the hell out of our fleets even as we're beating on his.
He takes the tough ships with lots of AD in multiple arcs, and then moves them across the table as fast as he can make them go... and cuts the opposing fleet apart with massed firepower.
We dread facing him because he usually beats the hell out of our fleets even as we're beating on his.
Tzarevitch
Mongoose
Foxmeister said:katadder said:
The beam on the G'Quan should be forward arc, since on-screen it is clearly not a boresight weapon. If a Whitestar gets F arc so as to better "simulate" its on-screen performance even though they are never seen firing off boresight, the G'Quan (which is seen firing at an angle) should definitely get F arc. It wouldn't even need downgrading in AD, since it is already 2 dice down (and 1 aft beam!) on an Omega and as I understand the logic, boresight beams were supposed to have more AD than F arc.
I also really don't like the OS e-mine (or any OS weapons for that matter) - it renders the G'Quan rather superfluous compared to a G'Lan which has the mag gun as a decent usable secondary (well, often primary due to boresight!), and the reduced range is often not an issue since many fleets can close from 30" to 18" rather quickly.
At present though, given a choice between spending a Battle FAP on a single G'Quan (and it's variants) or a Var'Nic and a Dar'Kar, for in-game performance I'd take the latter over the former any day of the week. However, since the Narn Heavy Cruiser hull is so iconic, I really want to take the G'Quan.
Although I don't expect any of these suggestions to get anywhere, I really hope that P&P sees the Narn get a little lovin'!
Regards,
Dave
My suggested Narn changes:
Increase all secondaries on T'Loth and variants, G'Quan and variants and Bin'Tak to 10" then make the follwing changes to individual units.
G'Quon:
Hvy laser - increase to 6d
E-mines - Reduce to 4d and make slow-loading.
G'Lan:
Hvy laser - remove. Consolidate it into the Mag Gun.
Mag Gun - increase to 5d
Remove Anti-fighter.
G'Quonth:
Hvy laser - remain 4d
E-mine - reduce to 4d, remains slow loading
Ion Torp - Reduce to 4d
Light Ion Cannon - drop to 8d.
Light Pulse Cannon - drop to G'quan standard of 6d
Remove Anti-Fighter.
Reduce the ship to Battle level.
Now the ship is a long-range sniper. Sort of a burlier and more expensive Dag'Kar. Gives a choice of 2 Dag'Kars for more firepower or 1 G'Quonth for more survivability. Essentially it trades the off the standard fighters and the 6d beam of my standard G'Quan for ion torps.
G'Tal:
Hvy Laser - 6d
Light ion cannon - 12d
Interceptors 1- As this is a command ship it should have a slightly better defense and probably some of the few interceptor systems the Narn had at the time (perhaps purchased from the League).
Bin'Tak:
Command to +2
E-mines - add slow loading.
Interceptors 1 - again it is a command ship, it should have a slightly better defense.
G'Vrahn:
Remove fighters, carrier trait and command trait to separate its role from the Bin'Tak. The Bin'Tak is a command ship, the G'Vrahn is now a super-heavy fast attack ship.
Gorith:
Speed 12. It really needs something to make it a real choice over the frazi.
Tzarevitch
Foxmeister
Mongoose
Darzoni said:
Given you've seen this working in action, I'm hesitant to dispute what you say, but personally I can't see this being a particularly viable tactic.
In particular, most Narn ships have all their "decent" weaponry in the boresight or front arc - the stuff at the sides/aft, whilst often having quite a few AD, tends to be very short ranged (8") and TL at best (i.e. no AP, DD, P etc). In my experience, mixing it up at short range, with someone like the Centauri (or anything with lots of hull 6 and/or interceptors) is playing to the strengths of other races and more often than not results in a lot of dead Narn - your brothers mileage clearly varies!
Regards,
Dave
In B5Wars, the mag gun was a terrible weapon. One shot was able to cut a primus in two. It was like a nuclear bomb, no?
Why has it been translated as a beam, I wonder?
And one not terribly efficient (one AD???).
I would have seen it as a mini-beam (to avoid interceptor use vs it), big AD, with DD or TD.
Marc
Why has it been translated as a beam, I wonder?
And one not terribly efficient (one AD???).
I would have seen it as a mini-beam (to avoid interceptor use vs it), big AD, with DD or TD.
Marc
madpax said:
the Mag Gun was transfered to a beam to make it potentially deadly, appreciating it wasn't a beam, the trait was intended to show how it can cut through ships. Personally, I think making it more like the Kaliva's Lance would have worked. The mag gun is only 1 dice on the K'T, 2 on the G'Lan, then 4 (I think) on the bin tak and G'Vrahn
