AAR after my second game of ACTA:SF

billclo

Mongoose
We played with 4 ships each.
Feds: BCH, CA, OCL, FF
Klingon: C7, D7, D6, F5

The game lasted 6 turns, and we managed to do it in 4 hours, versus 4 ½ - 5 hours for a 3 ship per side battle that lasted 8 turns.

We used the new drone rules, and 3 ship limit. 32 drones were fired at range 18” or above. 7 locked on, and only one evaded defensive fire to hit a ship. Once inside 18”, of 37 drones fired, one hit a target. The Feds did roll better than average on their ADD roles, and none of them lost any ADD ammo. One Klingon ship used up it’s ADD. We thought that the new drone rules were a significant improvement, though the Klingon player still thought they weren’t quite right.

Photons: The Feds fired at 10-13” (couldn’t keep the range open at 15”); of 12 Photons, only 3 hit (2 shield hits, one penetration). The Feds then tried to back up 4” and reload. They succeeded in reloading, but had no targets because the Klingons were all able to maneuver onto the Feds’s flanks outside of the FA arc. Only one Fed ship (OCL) was able to fire a second Photon salvo, and that was accomplished by a suicidal point blank shot against the F5 a turn later. Naturally he was hit from behind by 2 Klingons and badly damaged.

The BCH was unable to fire it’s reloaded torps for 3 (!) turns because he could not get any Klingons in FA arc. They kept dancing on his flanks…

The BCH later did try to back up 4” and use a HET behind a D6 in order to get it’s Photons in arc. Naturally he blew the roll and took 2 Impulse Criticals.

We ended up with a Fed CA and FF destroyed, the BCH crippled, and the OCL one point away from crippling. Neither were able to escape and I conceded the game. The Klingons lost an F5 and D7.

Things we’d like to see changed:

We both thought the Klingon cruisers were too maneuverable. They are Turn 4 and Agile; the F5 is Turn 3 and Agile. We both thought that the cruisers ought to be Turn 4, with no Agile. They have no trouble running circles around the Fed ships; the Feds have a low chance of actually getting to use their Photons a second time.

Being restricted to 4” backwards movement while trying to back up and reload was grossly inadequate. The Klingons had an easy time positioning themselves on the Fed’s flanks and avoided the Photons. We think that allowing a ship reversing to make one 45 degree turn at the end of it’s move would greatly help balance out the grossly superior Klingon maneuverability. Increasing allowed reverse speed to 6 would also be helpful. The Feds simply could not back up fast enough to avoid be flanked repeatedly.

As for the High Energy Turn, a 50-50 chance of blowing the roll seems too high. Certainly we thought there ought to be a bonus for the first one, and a second bonus for Agile ships. Agile ships ought to have an easier time doing a HET than a BCH. Say a +2 to the roll for the first HET, +1 for the second (if Agile). Otherwise a HET is very risky indeed; far more so than the other SFU games ACTA:SF is based on.

We looked at the situation, and concluded that backing up didn’t help the Feds much. Nor would have trying to blow through the Klingons and keep going while reloading…the Klingons would have just turned around and easily gotten behind the Feds and that’d be all she wrote.

The Klingon player thought that Photons should automatically reload (taking a turn to do so), allowing the Fed ship to have a special action during the reload turn. Being able to go APE or Boost Shields during the reload turn would have been rather helpful. A simple check box to indicate the Photons are reloading would do the trick. This would be a good thing for the Plasma ships as well.

I’m not convinced that the Feds are competitive versus the Klingons frankly.
 
My first impression was about the same, the combination of the front shield doubling (without a rear shield weakness) and the insanely agile cruisers is tough but the Feds do get better with practice although the bigger the point count, the better the Feds do. 4 ships per side running around on a 4 x 6 table really favors the Klingon whereas 10+ ships per side and the Klingons begin to have a much tougher time getting out of an F arc although the shield rule may as well have been applied across the board as given the Turn 4 Agile, they never need to take fire except on the front shield.
 
You should have much better than a 50/50 chance of making a HET, did you add your crew quality score of 4 to the roll?

So far I have found the Feds to be in real trouble when they lose initiative, which against Klingons and Romulans with a race based +1 initiative makes it tougher. The photons are a real tactical issue for them, their moderate range and having to reload is the deciding factor in most of Fed strategy. When you get to use them and make a good roll though they are amazing.

As for backing up, I personally do not like that rule, especially due to physics. To be able to go from full speed forward into reverse in one turn is ridiculous. I would prefer to see reverse only usable after one turn of being stationary and then allow up to 6 or 8" movement.
 
SneakyPete said:
You should have much better than a 50/50 chance of making a HET, did you add your crew quality score of 4 to the roll?

If he didn't he would have had a 0% chance. 50% is when you do add 4 crew quality.


As for backing up, I personally do not like that rule, especially due to physics.

Physics in star trek! sheesh.
 
As McKinstry said, larger fleets spread out more and cover most if not all of the arcs. Once you get past the 1000 point barrier combats end up as furballs with ships going in every direction. With the feds don’t even try to stay in formation. That way you always have someone covering the rear arc or another ship.

Re the forward shield bit. Against the Klingon’s the Fed ships should spread out more. Once the furball forms up it becomes far easier to find a Klingon you can hit on the sides and rear. With federation fleets use ships that have those flank shots first to wear down the shields before the ships in the targets front arc fire. That way you can quickly reduce this turns target to a shield less victim ready for the main salvos.

Klingons are fairly squishy outside of that front arc, take down the 18-20 box shield from the flank and then crush the 18-20 box hull from the front. That way you kill a Klingon Cruiser with the same firepower that would barely drop its front shield. Also remember Klingon’s are very vulnerable to those natural 6s through shields, with ADDs the Feds can use every Phaser to attack with and it should quickly add up in larger battles.


SneakyPete. Welcome to the forum. However I’m afraid you need to go sit in the naughty corner for using a bad word. Physics indeed :roll: :wink:
 
After thinking on it, I think the initiative bonus system is not necessary. The Klingons get enough benefits already, and it puts certain races at a major disadvantage (Gorn, Fed).

It certainly did not help that I won initiative the first turn and didn't again for the other 5 turns. :(

As for larger battles, perhaps. I don't have but a Squadron box for each Empire, and with only 2 players, 1000 pts on each side is starting to push the limits of how many ships we can control without the game taking 8+ hours...

I noted we were a little faster the second game, but I'm not sure we're going to get as fast as Scoutdad's group.
 
SneakyPete. Welcome to the forum. However I’m afraid you need to go sit in the naughty corner for using a bad word. Physics indeed

Hahaha :lol: duly noted

I think I need to re-read the rulebook as well, I thought crew quality checks were done using 2d6's, no wonder I made them so easily. For it to be a 50/50 chance with +4 crew quality it must be a single d6.
 
4 hours for 4v4, oh my. Is this indicative of the ruleset with the effect of shields etc? I'd expect a 4v4 in B5 to have taken an hour or so.
or is it merely peple getting to grips withthe game?
+1 on initiative isn't that big a deal on a 2D6 roll, certsinly doesn't come accross as unbalancing or anything.
 
No, it's not indicative. We can play larger games in a lot less time.

And +1 isn't a big deal. Clanger and I played a Fed vs Romulan game yesterday and the Federation won initiative most of the time.
 
Yeah, as you learn the rules, and remember things you have done before in the game, then its easier to make your choices on what to do.


As for help versus klingons with your feds. Spreading your ships out helps, you can also try to save your torpedoes for when you're below half range, or possibly even save them for an overload weapons order, multihit 8 will scare the klingons.

Have 1-2 ships in front, and the other 1-2 behind them by maybe 8 inches, that way the klingons can not get behind the first 2 ships without being exposed to the other 2 ships.

Of course the feds have their own turn3-4 frigates with agile that you can get behind the klingons and keep peppering them with phaser 1, potentially in killzone.

Reloading torps also is something that will probably be a wasted order, and even if the klingons get behind you, you can try to line up your AH, SH, and PH phaser 1's so you can pound on them as much as possible. Or depending on your turns, your AH, FH, and PH or SH phaser 1's.
 
billclo said:
I’m not convinced that the Feds are competitive versus the Klingons frankly.

After two games? :)

The Federation fleet is at least as strong as the Klingons. A lot of Klingon hate comes from their agility but, honestly, if they were not agile they would have a real bear of a time bringing their firepower to target - it is all up front. As for their shield reinforcement, again, it is crucial to their survival, as they have not got very strong shields otherwise...

Now, as far as the Federation goes, you may well not get every ship firing photons twice - but you may find you do not need to. One well-delivered photon strike, overloaded or no, will ruin a cruiser's day, and annihilate a frigate. Especially one as weedy as the Klingons'.

Also, if you find yourself constantly outflanked by Klingon ships, go for cheaper ships. He _cannot_ get behind your entire fleet if you outnumebr him.

On that issue, don't feel you have to go for the biggest and best the Federation has to offer in order to defeat the Klingon Empire. Try the smallest ships instead. Once you get a Frigate on a D7s tail, you can chip away at his weak rear shields quite merrily for much of the battle. If nothing else, you will be giving him something else to think about as your battlecruiser draws into range.

However, I think the biggest problem many people are having with the Federation, having read a few of these reports, is that they are trying to keep Klingons at arm's length so they cannot slip past a battle line. Go for their throats! Gun your engines, and close range as much as you possibly can! The single most potent weapon the Federation has is the massed banks of phasers-1, at short range. You roll plenty of dice, you rarely miss, and you are doing 2 hits per attack - with double the chance to score criticals too.

You'll find even reinforced front shields cannot survive that kind of pounding for long, and they are just as leaky as anyone else's shields...
 
Also look for fed ships with high drone numbers, if he gets in behind you it is still possible to peg him with some drones, might even absorb some phasers.
 
Matt,

Okay, I'll revisit my tactics and see if the result is any better next game.

Clearly backing up to reload was ineffective. Not a bad idea to hold a couple ships behind the main line and use them to flank any Klingons attacking the front ships.

As for only having played twice, that was a factor of it taking quite some time to get the minis repaired and painted, and we only get to play once per month with a guy who lives 45 mins away. I don't have a local group to game with, so I have to settle for once a month. This way it'll take a while to get decent experience with the game. :(
 
I think Scoutdad mentioned earlier that on initial playtest, the Klingons were the easiest fleet to master but with repetition, the Feds closed the learning curve gap and those two fleets are balanced well against each other. I certainly have found the Feds a slower learning curve but fully competitive once I got used to them.
 
Well i will be putting the Federation/Klingon theory to the test, i believe the federation do stand a chance with the photon topedos but its all about moving your fleet, try a scissor figure of eight formation with 2 a piece so they are distence enough to get the angles and close enough in case the whole klingon fleet goes for one prong!


Tactics you say? well leave me be with my spoon
 
Trenchbucket said:
try a scissor figure of eight formation with 2 a piece so they are distence enough to get the angles and close enough in case the whole klingon fleet goes for one prong!

Speaking from a historical perspective, this tactic was known as 'The Thach Weave', and was developed early in WW 2 to help US Navy Wildcat pilots deal with the more maneuverable Japanese Zero (sound familiar? :)).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave

PS: On second thought, as an intended Klingon player, it is perhaps unwise of me to provide opponents with ammunition against me :|
 
Topic review - AAR after my second game of ACTA:SF
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Barticus
Post subject: Re: AAR after my second game of ACTA:SF

Trenchbucket wrote:
try a scissor figure of eight formation with 2 a piece so they are distence enough to get the angles and close enough in case the whole klingon fleet goes for one prong!



Speaking from a historical perspective, this tactic was known as 'The Thach Weave', and was developed early in WW 2 to help US Navy Wildcat pilots deal with the more maneuverable Japanese Zero (sound familiar? ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave

PS: On second thought, as an intended Klingon player, it is perhaps unwise of me to provide opponents with ammunition against me
Trenchbucket said:
try a scissor figure of eight formation with 2 a piece so they are distence enough to get the angles and close enough in case the whole klingon fleet goes for one prong!

Speaking from a historical perspective, this tactic was known as 'The Thach Weave', and was developed early in WW 2 to help US Navy Wildcat pilots deal with the more maneuverable Japanese Zero (sound familiar? :)).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave

PS: On second thought, as an intended Klingon player, it is perhaps unwise of me to provide opponents with ammunition against me :|

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:56 pm



ha ha, too late now we can pull that formation and i decree to rename it the double dunking donut!



Tea solves many problems including reactor leaks
 
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