It was basically gathering dust as a coffee table book for a while, and became more valuable as 'tradin' goods'. There were a couple of threads on rpg.net a while back as to the game being broken, but I really can't recall exactly what the problem was supposed to be. You know how it can be on these forums. I am sure it is a good game, but you gotta remember I am in Seattle, and it's hard to find a non-D20 game up here. Unless you want to play Exalted. I know some people who will play something other than D20, but it is usually in 'addition to D20', not 'instead of D20'. Right now I have a half dozen books that are going to be traded off because they will never get used and I never look at them any more. I'm more of a user than a collector, with few exceptions I rarely keep rpgs I'm not actively using.
A very radical departure
- Thread starter Utgardloki
- Start date
homerjsinnott
Mongoose
Thanks for that everyone.
[Walks away whistling] from C and C, not you nice people.
[Walks away whistling] from C and C, not you nice people.
Huh?
Anyway, I just did a search on rpg.net for 'LOTR', and it brought up those old threads discussing the games' perceived shortcomings. Hard to hurt anyone, mooks too tough, Dodge worthless, Elves too much better than anyone else, just from a quick scan.
On the subject of the OP, I am almost beginning to wonder if the roll high for a target or better is inherently better as a quick system. Some of the alternatives to the MRQ mechanic for high skills don't look any easier or more intuitive, and I am beginning to notice that a LOT of new games are basically the same sort of core mechanic...like D20, roll high against a target number or better, using different dice combos like 2D10, 1D10, 1D20. Epic, Artesia, C&C. What I am thinking of right now is slipping some BRP stuff into C&C. Or maybe bits of OGL Ancients. Or something like that. Thing is, I've always liked the granularity of percentile too. And all I really want is a game I'd be happy to play as is and, quite system monkeying, and PLAY for a change.
I seem to be rambling. Sorry about that...
Anyway, I just did a search on rpg.net for 'LOTR', and it brought up those old threads discussing the games' perceived shortcomings. Hard to hurt anyone, mooks too tough, Dodge worthless, Elves too much better than anyone else, just from a quick scan.
On the subject of the OP, I am almost beginning to wonder if the roll high for a target or better is inherently better as a quick system. Some of the alternatives to the MRQ mechanic for high skills don't look any easier or more intuitive, and I am beginning to notice that a LOT of new games are basically the same sort of core mechanic...like D20, roll high against a target number or better, using different dice combos like 2D10, 1D10, 1D20. Epic, Artesia, C&C. What I am thinking of right now is slipping some BRP stuff into C&C. Or maybe bits of OGL Ancients. Or something like that. Thing is, I've always liked the granularity of percentile too. And all I really want is a game I'd be happy to play as is and, quite system monkeying, and PLAY for a change.
I seem to be rambling. Sorry about that...
andakitty said:
Well there are only a few ways you can use dice in a resolution mechanic. Roll a number or less, or roll a number or more, or just roll a number*. All other mechanics are just extensions of these three and 'roll and add modifiers to reach a target' is just a different way of saying 'roll this number or more'.
Even Storyteller is just roll a number or more, but you do it several times and add up your successes.
Simon Hibbs
*Actualy you could have 'roll evens' or such, but then we're getting realy silly.
AKAramis said:
We seem to have a lot of overlapping interests in RPGs. I've spent a lot of time over at TrekRPG.
I agree withyou on the CODA rulesset. I wouldn't consider it broken. A lot of the complaints against it at TREKRPG were from D&Der who thought it made your characters too powerful. Basically, like most "story" and "role-play" fouces RPGs it is suspectibel to munkinism. THat's not a flaw with CODA, just a flaw with the playing style that some gamers have.
That's why D&D has a page on stacking rules.
I think LOTR 4th age isn't a bad setting. 3rd is a little restrcited by all the world shaking events, but a 4tha age campaign where PCs are working to restore the northern kingdoms for example, seems quite playable.
Andakitty:
If you take RPGNet's advice, in general you'd play either d20 or GURPS, and consider everything else too broken to play.
RPGNet is a festering pit of loathing and discontent, often by those who HAVEN'T EVER READ the materials being slammed. Far too often snap judgments are made based upon one poorly run session by a novice GM (to the system).
C&C is an interesting read (I've got it, both Little White Box and the twin hardcovers), but the whole "Favored Attribute" thing really bugs me.
CODA is a decent engine. You missed out by not trying it.
Grow a spine; Stand up and be counted. Seattle is big enough that you CAN find players there. Start by finding a game store with non-D20 stuff on the shelves, and post a notice of looking for players. Yes, Paper on corkboard kind of deal. Or take out a 1paragraph ad in the Times classifieds. (I've non-gamer friends who have pointed out when someone has been advertising the the ADN that they're looking for games or gamers.)
If you take RPGNet's advice, in general you'd play either d20 or GURPS, and consider everything else too broken to play.
RPGNet is a festering pit of loathing and discontent, often by those who HAVEN'T EVER READ the materials being slammed. Far too often snap judgments are made based upon one poorly run session by a novice GM (to the system).
C&C is an interesting read (I've got it, both Little White Box and the twin hardcovers), but the whole "Favored Attribute" thing really bugs me.
CODA is a decent engine. You missed out by not trying it.
Grow a spine; Stand up and be counted. Seattle is big enough that you CAN find players there. Start by finding a game store with non-D20 stuff on the shelves, and post a notice of looking for players. Yes, Paper on corkboard kind of deal. Or take out a 1paragraph ad in the Times classifieds. (I've non-gamer friends who have pointed out when someone has been advertising the the ADN that they're looking for games or gamers.)
c&c is awesome! but it's awesome because it's a streamlined, modern AD&D first edition. If you're an old RQ guy, you probably grew up hating AD&D1, and it is unlikely to attract you anyway. But it's a great system for that sort of gaming (sort of the bastard love child of 1e & 3.5e D&D)
And they named it Castles & Crusades in honor of the castles & crusades society a gaming group that at times has included the likes of Gary Gygax, Rob Kuntz etc, and has gone back more than 20 years, not to p/o the muslims.
And they named it Castles & Crusades in honor of the castles & crusades society a gaming group that at times has included the likes of Gary Gygax, Rob Kuntz etc, and has gone back more than 20 years, not to p/o the muslims.
ShawnG said:
And you'd be way wrong. I cut my teeth on AD&D1, before the idea of an AD&D2 was around. Before the goldenrod spines.. I dislike the "Favored Attribute" bit, not because I dislike AD&D1, but because I dislike that ONE mechanical choice they made. Hell, I'm Running Cyclopedia Rules on Friday Nights!
I'd been gaming 5 years before finding RuneQuest... and my friends mostly went the palladium route.
Don't leap to conclusions...
Yup. No news there.
Why, thanks for the free advice, Aramus.
I will decide if I missed something or not, and I definitely had my own reservations about it. So many games and so little time, you know? I know about rpg.net, and was answering a question from someone else. As for 'grow a spine', I have had a group here constantly for about 20 years now...I was commenting on the difficulty of finding folks who play something other than the two mentioned games, not complaining because I dont have a spine to make myself be counted. Count on that. :wink:
I am an old Stormbringer guy, and I am liking C&C more than MRQ, by the way.
I will decide if I missed something or not, and I definitely had my own reservations about it. So many games and so little time, you know? I know about rpg.net, and was answering a question from someone else. As for 'grow a spine', I have had a group here constantly for about 20 years now...I was commenting on the difficulty of finding folks who play something other than the two mentioned games, not complaining because I dont have a spine to make myself be counted. Count on that. :wink:
I am an old Stormbringer guy, and I am liking C&C more than MRQ, by the way.
Not surprised. CoC and Strombringer have a lot of similarities. At around the Elric/5th edtion level they are almost identical ruleswise.
You just have to be careful. If you see anything that is even remotely non-human, it will probably kill you and is immune to bullets. So far the most successful survival tactic in COC is to fill up the car with fuel-and friends that you won't miss too much. Then practice saying "Just hold the stairway until I start up the car?" in the mirror until you look and sound convincing.
You just have to be careful. If you see anything that is even remotely non-human, it will probably kill you and is immune to bullets. So far the most successful survival tactic in COC is to fill up the car with fuel-and friends that you won't miss too much. Then practice saying "Just hold the stairway until I start up the car?" in the mirror until you look and sound convincing.
I didn't post this to be confrontational, I wasn't responding to your post, but some farther up. anyway I wasn't jumping to conclusions, just making a generalization (I am an exeption to my own rule since I like both AD&D and RQ) when I was an active gamer in the '80's the people that I knew who played RQ practically defined themselves with their opposition to AD&D, And I don't think that's really changed too much, the two systems are only similar in that they are both RPG's.
Palladium was good too, too bad I sold my copy, I can't find anywhere to buy Palladium on pdf
Simbieda has made a few posts that indicate he's sticking to dead tree, with the exception of a few odd things he's put up for free on the palladium site.
As to the strap on a spine comment. Yes, It was a bit out of line. I keep hearing similar stuff about the seattle area, but having friends down there, they do not share the "D20 is the only thing" view... and the only way to break that view is to present viable alternatives unto the gamers of Seattle.
Atgxtg: I suppose mentioning OSRIC would be a turn-off too, if the idea that C&C is AD&D done right is... (Old School Reference Index Companion). Someone took the OGL, and decided to make an OGL based off the d20 SRD that is an AD&D1 work-alike.... Basic Fantasy is a "D20 in the spirit of the Basic/Expert set D&D"...
Nostalgia seems big this year.
As to the strap on a spine comment. Yes, It was a bit out of line. I keep hearing similar stuff about the seattle area, but having friends down there, they do not share the "D20 is the only thing" view... and the only way to break that view is to present viable alternatives unto the gamers of Seattle.
Atgxtg: I suppose mentioning OSRIC would be a turn-off too, if the idea that C&C is AD&D done right is... (Old School Reference Index Companion). Someone took the OGL, and decided to make an OGL based off the d20 SRD that is an AD&D1 work-alike.... Basic Fantasy is a "D20 in the spirit of the Basic/Expert set D&D"...
Nostalgia seems big this year.
atgxtg, C&C, not CoC. It has something very much in common with SB1; simple, fast, and fun...even for the GM. Honestly, I don't like CoC THAT much. Depressing.
Aramus, Seattle is rough for non-3.5/Exalted. You can get a game of 3.5 any day of the week, but an ad for practically anything else will go for months with no response (especially RQ). To get an idea of how it is, checking out a local convention might help as you would think a smallish game convention would have a good sampling of the hobby in an area. But if you were to do a search for Dragonflight, which was held just this weekend in Bellevue, across the lake from Seattle, and checked out the scheduled events, it's very revealing and a good sampling of what is available here. I don't understand it with all the indies in the area, but there you go. My contacts here are good, one of my gaming group at present is the owner/operator of a local gamestore, so I have a pretty good handle on the situation.
Of course, I would love it if someone in this area got on here, waved a hand, and proved me wrong. I would finally have made contact with the local RQ players.
Aramus, Seattle is rough for non-3.5/Exalted. You can get a game of 3.5 any day of the week, but an ad for practically anything else will go for months with no response (especially RQ). To get an idea of how it is, checking out a local convention might help as you would think a smallish game convention would have a good sampling of the hobby in an area. But if you were to do a search for Dragonflight, which was held just this weekend in Bellevue, across the lake from Seattle, and checked out the scheduled events, it's very revealing and a good sampling of what is available here. I don't understand it with all the indies in the area, but there you go. My contacts here are good, one of my gaming group at present is the owner/operator of a local gamestore, so I have a pretty good handle on the situation.
Of course, I would love it if someone in this area got on here, waved a hand, and proved me wrong. I would finally have made contact with the local RQ players.
andakitty said:
Sorry, sometimes I loose my place in the alabet soup. I sort of found CoC depressing too. My most successful character was a guy who had the good fortune to never be around when the Mythos stuff showed up. As a result, I never believed in any of it. The funny bit was that my characxter was the only one in the group who imprved got his SAN up and all that. THe one time I saw something nasty is was through a window, at night. I swa big bat wings, shot it, never found a body, commented on the size of the bats out in the contry and moved on. THe GM was getting a little annoyed. I was doing everything "wrong", but got the best results out of any character in the history of his campaign. We allstarted giggling, since most of the time I wasn't trying to avoid the monsters, I just had a habit of doing the right thing at the right time. Keeping that Tommy gun in the trunk saved my life in ways my character couldn't even begin to understand.
andakitty said:
"click"
"click"
"click"
Nope, you got the wrong ruby slippers.
AKAramis said:
AKAramis said:
For me, yeah. Not much there to peakmy interest. Especially when I have most of the orginal stuff somehwere if I wanted to go back to it. I even have 1st edtion C&S if I felt nostalgic. I think a lot of the "nostalgic" games are really just ways to remarket old game to a new crop of gamers. In a couple of years the new gamers won't have heard of AD&D. WotC could re-re-release it as AD&D and some peole would probably think of it as the successor to D&D 3.5
