A couple of questions...

[Wulf Corbett]

I've also worked on some ships that were involved in rammings (both rammer and rammed) - in fact, come to think of it I have been on an operational frigate when it rammed another one (quite dramatic, I can tell you!).

I remember watching film from the Cod Wars - bloody vikings!

Wulf

 

[DM]

Did anyone see the article I had in one of the glossies a few years back about wargaming the Cod War? A nice, fun participation game that I recently updated for Greenpeace vs. whaler scenarios.

 

[captainsmirk]

I just noticed that I used to be a weasel and now am a stoat, so I was wondering what the difference was.

Well as I was always told...

One is weasely recognizable and the other is stoately different. Could never work out which was which though... :?


Nick

 

[Bullshot]

didnt they used to ram ships with submarines?
oh wait... that was 20,000 leagues under the sea... n/m

Actually, they did, in a sense. The first incarnations of subs weren't fully submersible. They skimmed along with the very top of the ship 'level' with the top of the water. The ship had a long spar with a powder keg on it. You rolled up to the ship, stuck the spar in it, lit the fuse and backed away. If you were lucky, the wave from the explosion wouldn't wash enough water into your hull as to make you sink. Considering the time, it was risky, but effective. I don't think it ever got widespread use. In fact, I think it was only used once and the thing did sink. Interesting concept nontheless.

BS

 

[Der Kommandant]

didnt they used to ram ships with submarines?
oh wait... that was 20,000 leagues under the sea... n/m

Actually, they did, in a sense. The first incarnations of subs weren't fully submersible. They skimmed along with the very top of the ship 'level' with the top of the water. The ship had a long spar with a powder keg on it. You rolled up to the ship, stuck the spar in it, lit the fuse and backed away. If you were lucky, the wave from the explosion wouldn't wash enough water into your hull as to make you sink. Considering the time, it was risky, but effective. I don't think it ever got widespread use. In fact, I think it was only used once and the thing did sink. Interesting concept nontheless.

BS

:shock: thats awesome!

 

[DM]

In fact, I think it was only used once and the thing did sink. Interesting concept nontheless.

I think you are confusing two distinct types of craft from the American Civil War. Both sides fielded fully submersible submarines. The most famous was the Confederate Hunley, the first submarine ever to sink a surface ship in action. She was herself sunk during the action but the location of her wreck indicated a loss whilst returning from a successful misson rather than a loss during the attack. The Confederates also used semi-submersible craft called "Davids" which did ballast down to present a minimal visual signature. Both these craft used spar torpedoes (big bomb on the end of a long pole)

Finally, spar torpedoes were also used by normal displacement craft fom ships boats to full size irondclads.

 

[underling]

The most famous was the Hulley, the first submarine ever to sink a surface ship in action. She was herself sunk during the action but the location of her wreck indicated a loss whilst returning from a successful misson rather than a loss during the attack.

I believe the name is Hunley.
:wink:
Oops...
Looks like you got it corrected before I could finish my post.
Kevin

 

[Bullshot]

In fact, I think it was only used once and the thing did sink. Interesting concept nontheless.

I think you are confusing two distinct types of craft from the American Civil War. Both sides fielded fully submersible submarines. The most famous was the Confederate Hunley, the first submarine ever to sink a surface ship in action. She was herself sunk during the action but the location of her wreck indicated a loss whilst returning from a successful misson rather than a loss during the attack. The Confederates also used semi-submersible craft called "Davids" which did ballast down to present a minimal visual signature. Both these craft used spar torpedoes (big bomb on the end of a long pole)

Finally, spar torpedoes were also used by normal displacement craft fom ships boats to full size irondclads.

Actually, I wasn't thinking in terms of the Civil War, but those are prime examples. The one I was thinking of pre-dates those. It was the Turtle. http://www.historycentral.com/NAVY/MISC%202/turtle.html
I was wrong on the spar apparatus for it though. It had a makeshift torpedo that had to be screwed into the ship's hull and then detonated with a clockwork detonator. It looks as if it was ineffective as well. however, it is proof that sub warfare was starting as early as 1771.

BS

 

[Itkovian]

Go to Upcoming Releases, then click S&P wargamer 41. Its up, trust me :wink:

Oh, and a serious question, can someone explain to me the effects of naval collisions(with various examples of size differences and the damage caused by them)/ ramming actions?

Another WW2 Example HMS Gloworm (DD) ramming KM Hipper, putting a 10 foot gash in her (and then sinking!)

There are a fair few accidental rammings in the late 19th and Early 20th Century, off the top of my bald head I can think of the British, German and Russian fleets all losing major units to accidental ramming...

I think the Russians come out worst having had in the same fleet (And the same day!) another ship rendered unseaworthy after being impaled by another ships anchor as it got under way...

This may have been the same ship that contrived to sink at anchor the year before

And then there is the whole attacking British trawlers thinking they are JApanese torpedo boats...
"Look out Admiral, they have launched a full spread of... cod?"

 

[DM]

however, it is proof that sub warfare was starting as early as 1771.

Having said that, there are doubts as to whether the Turtle actually existed or not.

Submarine warfare started way before 1771 anyway. Fulton's "Nautilus" was demonstrated to Napoleon in 1800 and then to the Royal Navy in 1805, where it was used to sink several target brigs using (IIRC) towed explosive devices. However, inventors in England and the Netherlands were playing with submarine concepts as early as the 1570s, and I'm sure there were a few before then as well.

 

[chaos0xomega]

Of course, my favorite ramming action, the american one that hit Surcouf. Okay, so that was never proven, but still. It goes to show you that subs WERE rammed by ships accidentally. I mean... it had to be some sort of sub, right? Even if it wasn't Surcouf.