760 Patrons

[Supplement Four]

The reviews on 760 Patrons seem to be all over the place. Some think it is well worth the investment. Some like it, but think it shouldn't be a Traveller product--instead more of a generic SciFi product. Some think it's a waste of money and something that should have been a freebie download.

Simple question on this poll: Do you think that 760 Patrons is a worthwhile supplement--worth the $20 bucks or so you paid for it?

Those that don't actually own the supplement are invited to respond as well, citing whether they will be purchasing the book or not.

 

[rust]

Some like it, but think it shouldn't be a Traveller product--instead more of a generic SciFi product.

According to author and publisher it is a generic product, for the generic
Traveller system, not for the Traveller OTU.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

If products are so generic that there is no connection to the Traveller rules, whether these are generic or not, why put the Traveller swoosh on it?

... To sell it obviously ...

Traveller has always been a generic Si-Fi rules set, pick up and read Classic Traveller Supplement 1.

CT Supplement 1 is completely generic, check out page 43, but it's defiantly Traveller.

And I've not mentioned the OTU (or The Third Imperium for MGT speak) because I didn't think I needed to.

MGT 760 Patrons is so generic, it's not Traveller.

Is it a good book? IMHO, yes.

Is it worth the money? IMHO, yes.

Is it a Traveller product? IMHO, no.

Would I have brought it if it was titled 760 NPCs for any Si-Fi RPG? no.

Am I annoyed that Mongoose sold a completly generic Si-Fi product as a Traveller title? a little.

Regards

Ewan

 

[EDG]

Some like it, but think it shouldn't be a Traveller product--instead more of a generic SciFi product.

Here's a newsflash for you - it IS a generic Scifi product, because Traveller is now a generic scifi RPG. Anything with the Traveller logo is not necessarily OTU anymore.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

Here's a newsflash for you - it IS a generic Scifi product, because Traveller is now a generic scifi RPG. Anything with the Traveller logo is not necessarily OTU anymore.

Thanks Constantine, I know that, always have. Traveller always was a generic SciFi rules set. MGT has gone back to basics and updated it for the modern RPG market.

Still MGT 760 Patrons is not a Traveller product IMHO. It's so generic it has no connection with the MGT rule set.

 

[EDG]

Thanks Constantine, I know that, always have.

I know you know that, but Supp4 appeared to have missed the memo.

Still MGT 760 Patrons is not a Traveller product IMHO. It's so generic it has no connection with the MGT rule set.

*shrug*. It's a book of NPCs. I guess they don't have any stats for them in the book (I can't see why they'd need stats myself)? If not then sure, I guess that's really generic, but it doesn't stop it being useful for Traveller. (a book of planet descriptions with no game mechanics/UWPs wouldn't be specifically Traveller either, but it'd still be useful and appropriate for the game I think).

 

[Ishmael]

Still MGT 760 Patrons is not a Traveller product IMHO. It's so generic it has no connection with the MGT rule set.

If Traveller is generic sci-fi ( as it was in the beginning ), and 760 patrons is generic sci-fi, then why isn't 760 patrons Traveller? Because they made it with few/no ties to the OTU?

This begs the question, "What is Traveller?"

 

[Klaus Kipling]

The OTU is as generic a setting as you can get anyway.

And 760 Patrons does tie quite specifically in with the contacts/rivals/allies/enemies rules in MGT.

 

[Emryys]

I too was thinking it would be more fleshed out Patrons in the original sense, but having been able to flip through it I did see it's potential usefulness. They could have maybe released this as the "1001 characters" supplement, but....

I'll just combine it with the Space Opera Adventure Generator

They'll also have to release more Patron encounters in S&P...

 

[E.D.Quibell]

*shrug*. It's a book of NPCs. I guess they don't have any stats for them in the book (I can't see why they'd need stats myself)? If not then sure, I guess that's really generic, but it doesn't stop it being useful for Traveller. (a book of planet descriptions with no game mechanics/UWPs wouldn't be specifically Traveller either, but it'd still be useful and appropriate for the game I think).

I agree that it's useful for Traveller, any generic scifi book produced by any company is likely useful for Traveller, but that doesn't mean that they are Traveller books.

Mongoose produced 760 Patrons as a Traveller book, because of brand identity and marketing. To sell the book in other words. You and me, as consumers can expect it (760 Patrons) to confirm to that brand identity. It doesn't.

It doesn't mean it's not a good book. It is IMHO. It doesn't mean it's not useful. It is IMHO.

It does mean that it needs to be a Traveller book about Patrons, which it isn't.

Best Regards,

Ewan

 

[E.D.Quibell]

If Traveller is generic sci-fi ( as it was in the beginning ), and 760 patrons is generic sci-fi, then why isn't 760 patrons Traveller? Because they made it with few/no ties to the OTU?

No.

760 Patrons isn't Traveller because it was written without reference to "classic" Traveller Patron Encounters, and, more importantly, without reference to the Mongoose Traveller Core Rulebook.

Regards

Ewan

 

[E.D.Quibell]

And 760 Patrons does tie quite specifically in with the contacts/rivals/allies/enemies rules in MGT.

No it doesn't. It fits with the contacts/rivals/allies/enemies rules, like any generic NPC book would, but it doesn't tie in specifically with them. The book isn't sold as an extension of the character generation sequence of the Core Rulebook, like ... say ... Mercenary.

Regards,

Ewan

 

[Klaus Kipling]

It does mean that it needs to be a Traveller book about Patrons, which it isn't.

I'll give you they're not Patrons in the traditional Traveller sense, but I really do not understand how you can say it's not Traveller.

Traveller and the OTU are the most generic sci-fi game/setting there is. It's Traveller's strength - it doesn't carry any of the baggage that other, non-generic games have. There's enough room to run, in the OTU, almost any type of game, from the old Foundation style classics, up to a more contemporary P F Hamilton tech-fest.

To say it has to be OTU specific to be Traveller surely is bogus? The fact that there's pages of tables referring to MGT careers ties it into the rules. And I find it baffling that folk complain about a product they say they like, when that complaint is just about the title.

But I'm not meaning to come off argumentative. I just find it odd that 760 Patrons gets such approbrium heaped on it, even by those who like it. If a products useful, it's a win. And it is very useful indeed.

 

[EDG]

I think I get the problem EDQ has here - that Mongoose released it as a Traveller book, but if it had been released by anyone else it would have been released as a generic OGL book (maybe under the TLL, but apparently it's so generic that it might not even need that).

Apparently Mongoose's reasoning is that if they release a book then it's automatically Traveller. Which kinda makes sense, or it'd be like WotC releasing a generic book for D&D3e but then saying on it that it was "compatible with the most popular fantasy RPG on the planet" instead of just saying "this is a D&D supplement". It's their system, so it seems that they should be able to get away with publishing a generic book under it.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

I think I get the problem EDQ has here - that Mongoose released it as a Traveller book, but if it had been released by anyone else it would have been released as a generic OGL book (maybe under the TLL, but apparently it's so generic that it might not even need that).

Bang on. Nail on head. It's so generic, and so not[/] Patrons that I could have released it. Without a license from anyone, no reference to the OGL or the TLL would have been necessary. It wouldn't have sold because I won't have been allowed to put Traveller on the front cover. I would have had to have called it 760 NPCs for SciFi, and if Mongoose did the same thing and sold it as 760 NPCs for SciFi, with nothing to do with Traveller, I wouldn't have brought. I suspect that they may well have lost considerably more sales than just me.

Apparently Mongoose's reasoning is that if they release a book then it's automatically Traveller. Which kinda makes sense, or it'd be like WotC releasing a generic book for D&D3e but then saying on it that it was "compatible with the most popular fantasy RPG on the planet" instead of just saying "this is a D&D supplement". It's their system, so it seems that they should be able to get away with publishing a generic book under it.

Careful Constantine, I think you may be putting words into Mongoose's mouth here, and the analogy you make is doesn't fit well, and doesn't make that much sense. Just because Mongoose release a SciFi product doesn't make it Traveller, doesn't make it B5, or PARANOIA either.

Traveller has brand identity and Mongoose are using that to sell product, it's not theirs, it's Marc's, and smilies or no smilies they are in the business of leveraging that identity. If they say they will produce a Traveller product then that is what they should produce.

Regards,

Ewan

 

[Emryys]

I would have had to have called it 760 NPCs for SciFi, and if Mongoose did the same thing and sold it as 760 NPCs for SciFi, with nothing to do with Traveller, I wouldn't have brought. I suspect that they may well have lost considerably more sales than just me.

I think part of the problem is the purchase might have been made sight unseen, which may have been beyond your control... and based on the name, I would have presumed the same... thankfully I was able to see the product first, then make a decision.

Was there an indepth preview available with examples...?

 

[zozotroll]

It is certainly useful for me. As for is it really Traveller, well, ytou would have to define what that really means. And it will very from person to person so much that you will never get a perfect answer. It fits well enough for MTrav for me.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

While I agree that this supplement could be used with just about any SciFi RPG, it IS tailored to Traveller. The D6 concept, the general background of each group of patrons (as opposed to Patrons in previous books) as well as the various categories work best in a Traveller setting rather than something else.

It is also pretty easy to use this book to MAKE a Patron. See the Topic about creating patrons using the book where I came up with a Patron called Gruffty in about 5 minutes, complete with adventure hook and possible follow-on adventures.

So, it CAN be used to create Patrons, not just allies/contacts/rivals/enemies; but trust me it works GREAT in that roll too.

 

[EDG]

Careful Constantine, I think you may be putting words into Mongoose's mouth here, and the analogy you make is doesn't fit well, and doesn't make that much sense. Just because Mongoose release a SciFi product doesn't make it Traveller, doesn't make it B5, or PARANOIA either.

I'm not putting words into their mouths, just describing what their logic looks like to me.

But given that Traveller is now the name of Mongoose's generic SF ruleset, how exactly would you expect them to sell a generic SF book? It's a Traveller book, surely.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

But given that Traveller is now the name of Mongoose's generic SF ruleset, how exactly would you expect them to sell a generic SF book? It's a Traveller book, surely.

I know what you are trying to say, but you have to view it from the consumer's point of view (I don't know about across the pond but here in the UK it's the "average consumer's" view that matters), and as Mongoose is a UK company ...

So if Mongoose want to produce a generic SciFi book, and sell it, they can sell it as a generic SciFi book. They can call it Mongoose Generic SciFi, and they would be well within their rights as it would be a fair description (they might not sell a lot of it but that's beside the point). If they want to produce a Traveller book ... guess what ... it's got to be a Traveller book.

Regards,

Ewan