760 Patrons - Wow
- Thread starter Nickbergquist
- Start date
Mongoose Steele said:
You did exactly that and I will go on record as saying that this is one of the most useful and excellently done books of its type I have ever seen for any RPG.
Its just misnamed relative to the book it gets its title from and the expectations that those who had an understanding of the term "patron" from both past Traveller and the patron examples given in the core bopk would have had.
I'd say that's a fair trade...a slightly inaccurate title in return for great and useful resource.
Allen
AKAramis said:
Yep..and I personally am ok with that. Back in 1977, the idea of the generic system wasn't really around...but in their original format the LBB's could have been a generic sci-fi system. I think its ok to make the current rules more generic.
what might be better is not to reuse titles from older Traveller products on books that are intended to be more generic...but all in all its a minor issue for me. I run Traveller in the OTU (for now) and can filter out stuff if need be.
Allen
E.D.Quibell
Banded Mongoose
Just to note, I wasn't expecting 760 Patrons for the OTU, I was expecting 760 Patrons for Traveller.
I do understand the difference between the rules and the setting, always have.
Regards,
Ewan
I do understand the difference between the rules and the setting, always have.
Regards,
Ewan
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
While it is 760 NPCs, I have found that creating a Patron from any of the ones I have rolled to be trivially easy. Brian, in that you have succeeded and I now use this book for all of the "Enemy/Rival/Ally/Friend" type of rolls during Character Creation. Quick and easy and INSPIRING.
Remember back when 760 Patrons was first announced and everyone pooh-poohed Mongoose for having the Typo on the title? Guess they knew what they were doing after all!
Great Book. I use it EVERY SINGLE SESSION of my game.
Remember back when 760 Patrons was first announced and everyone pooh-poohed Mongoose for having the Typo on the title? Guess they knew what they were doing after all!
Great Book. I use it EVERY SINGLE SESSION of my game.
Supplement Four
Mongoose
Allensh said:
You don't seem to know too much about Traveller.
Traveller, when it was first published, was a generic scifi system. It was designed so that you could play your favorite science fiction characters from literature, movies, or television.
As Traveller grew in popularity, the Third Imperium as gradulally developed around the rules.
Traveller, generic, came first. 3I setting, added later.
Gruffty the Hiver
Mongoose
I have 1st ed UK and US printings of books 1, 2 and 3, open on my desk now. There is nothing in these books about, or directly related to, the 3I. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Completely OTU-less.Supplement Four said:
iainjcoleman
Banded Mongoose
E.D.Quibell said:
I'm afraid I have to agree with this. As "760 Random Encounters", it's great. I can certainly see it being very useful, not just in gameplay, but also in fleshing out contacts in character generation.
But as "760 Patrons" it just... isn't.
"Patron Encounter" is a term of art specific to the Traveller game. It refers to a sketched-out adventure plot, with multiple options for what is really going on behind what is presented to the players. There are four excellent examples in the Mongoose Traveller core rulebook, as well as older examples going back to Supplement 6.
Perhaps 760 was just too ambitious. That many proper patron encounters would have resulted in a prohibitive page count. That being so, it would have been better to reduce the number of patrons, and do them properly, than to turn the book into something that, whatever its virtues as an NPC resource, is not a book of patron encounters.
Klaus Kipling
Mongoose
iainjcoleman said:
But this semantic debate is becoming a little boring, yes?
Whether it's called 760 Patrons or 760 Encounters or what have you, the real question is is it useful? For the answer is 'hell yeah!'
And that's all that counts, really. Doesn't matter if it's not OTU specific, not one jot.
Again, the difference is pure semantics.
)iainjcoleman
Banded Mongoose
No, it's not semantics.
I was disappointed, because I had expected one thing (a book full of patron encounters) and got something else (a book full of NPCs). The fact that it is a good book full of NPCs does not change the fact that it is not what I expected to get when I bought it.
I was disappointed, because I had expected one thing (a book full of patron encounters) and got something else (a book full of NPCs). The fact that it is a good book full of NPCs does not change the fact that it is not what I expected to get when I bought it.
E.D.Quibell
Banded Mongoose
iainjcoleman said:
I completly agree.
Klaus Kipling
Mongoose
I'm sure it won't matter at all to any newb that might have purchased it. And that's more important than appeasing the old-timers.
No one should necessarily buy a book just because of a name - usually worth looking inside first. So Mongoose have used the word Patron in part as a marketing ploy. Don't really have a problem with that.
As to it's genericism. Totally irrelevant. Traveller is a generic game, and the OTU is a generic setting anyhow.
Anyway, it does tie in very nicely to MGT chargen, what with contacts rivals and so on.
It's also hard to claim disappointment when it's felt the product is good and useful, even if it's not the product one thought one was getting in the first place. It's always a win when an rpg product is good and useful, because so many of them aren't, and are disappointing (Atlas of the Imperium, as a good example).
No one should necessarily buy a book just because of a name - usually worth looking inside first. So Mongoose have used the word Patron in part as a marketing ploy. Don't really have a problem with that.
As to it's genericism. Totally irrelevant. Traveller is a generic game, and the OTU is a generic setting anyhow.
Anyway, it does tie in very nicely to MGT chargen, what with contacts rivals and so on.
It's also hard to claim disappointment when it's felt the product is good and useful, even if it's not the product one thought one was getting in the first place. It's always a win when an rpg product is good and useful, because so many of them aren't, and are disappointing (Atlas of the Imperium, as a good example).
E.D.Quibell
Banded Mongoose
Klaus Kipling said:
Of course it's relevant. It's all about brand identity and marketing. Why do you think Mongoose brought the Traveller license in the first place? Certainly not to sell generic scifi _without_ the Traveller swoosh on it. If they did why would they bother to pay Mark for the privilege?
Regards,
Ewan
Klaus Kipling
Mongoose
My point is that it's impossible to argue that 760 Patrons is not Traveller, like it is to argue that it is not Star Wars or not Cyberpunk.
It slots into the MGT ruleset perfectly, unlike a truly generic product would. It is closer to MGT than, say, StarMercs from GT. I can get some setting info from the latter, but could not integrate it into MGT without a good knowledge of GURPS.
I've just used 760 Patrons in conjunction with MGT chargen to spin out a whole scenario from just the connections rule. That's a bloody useful piece of product. In a way better than a whole load of Patrons. I might've used a handful of entries from a putative 76 Patrons, but I've already used 20 or 30 entries from 760 Patrons, made a complete scenario, in the space of an evening. That's very useful.
It slots into the MGT ruleset perfectly, unlike a truly generic product would. It is closer to MGT than, say, StarMercs from GT. I can get some setting info from the latter, but could not integrate it into MGT without a good knowledge of GURPS.
I've just used 760 Patrons in conjunction with MGT chargen to spin out a whole scenario from just the connections rule. That's a bloody useful piece of product. In a way better than a whole load of Patrons. I might've used a handful of entries from a putative 76 Patrons, but I've already used 20 or 30 entries from 760 Patrons, made a complete scenario, in the space of an evening. That's very useful.
From my point of view Traveller is a generic rules system while the
Third Imperium is a specific setting that uses, among others (think
GURPS, Hero, d20), the Traveller rules system.
For example, my setting uses several parts of the Traveller system,
but is has nothing at all to do with the Third Imperium setting.
So, to expect that a Traveller product is a product for the Third Im-
perium setting does not make much sense, I think.
Third Imperium is a specific setting that uses, among others (think
GURPS, Hero, d20), the Traveller rules system.
For example, my setting uses several parts of the Traveller system,
but is has nothing at all to do with the Third Imperium setting.
So, to expect that a Traveller product is a product for the Third Im-
perium setting does not make much sense, I think.
iainjcoleman
Banded Mongoose
Klaus Kipling said:
Unless of course they'd read the patron encounters in the core rulebook, and come to the very reasonable conclusion that a book called "760 Patrons" would have more encounters along those lines.
I hope anyone thinking of buying the book by mail order reads this thread first. Wouldn't want them to be misled by the words Mongoose chose to put on the front of their book, now would we?
Well I do, and it was my fifteen quid.
On the contrary, it's quite easy. If I go into a shop and ask for fork handles, and the shopkeeper sells me four candles instead, I'm going to be disappointed. They might be the most beautifully made, elegant and aromatic candles in the world. I might even be able to use some candles around the house. That doesn't change the fact that I still have all these forks that need handles put on them.
