4E Slaine

This is my first post after some five years of quiet lurking. I was prompted to register following my renewed interest in the Slaine RPG, particulary the Horned God/Moon Sow campaign.

I first purchased the d20 version of Slaine more years ago than I care to remember, but have never been able to slip it into our game schedule. So it, and the supplements and adventures just sat there, gathering dust. For me and my group, 3E D&D came and went, and was considered, overall, and enjoyable, but ultimately unfulfilling experience. The best d20-based system we actually played was the Conan RPG , but even that suffered from much of the bloat of 3E which made it, for me, a headache to run. The stat blocks alone made my head spin, and so after a (very successful, albeit) short campaign, I packed that away.

My recent experience running 4E, and playing the barbarian class has inspired me to try to get a 4E-based Slaine game going. Obviously there are MANY 4E elements that simply will not fit well. As I'm really only interested in the Horned God/Moon Sow campaign, this will make my job somewhat easier. For example, I plan to limit all PCs to humans. No warped ones, no dwarves, just humans, specifically of the Fir Domain tribe, as recommended. PC Classes, likewise, will be limited: Barbarians to represent Tribal Warriors, Warlords (or Thaneborn Barbarians) to represent Noble Warriors, Rogues to represent Thieves, and Warlocks (fey and infernal pact only) to represent Witches.

Druids, Bards, etc are best left as NPCs, drivers of the story rather than PCs, I think, and since 4E's NPC/monster design philosophy eschews the slavish PC-based character building system, this should not prove too difficult; just convert appropriate spells as at-will, encounter, interrupt, or recharge powers, as appropriate.

Monsters are a snap to convert, especially since the arrival of the wonderful Monster Builder from DDI- just pick an existing 4E monster and reskin it in a matter of minutes.

Of course 4E presumes a certain amount of PC magic. This will be countered in a couple of ways. Firstly, PCs will get the NPC magic bonus (+1 per 5 levels), as per the 4E DMG. Secondly, most opponents will be 'defeated' (either unconscious, flee, or otherwise unable to take part in the combat) on the NEXT hit after they are rendered Bloodied; and finally, the pacing of encounters will be slowed a little (typically only one or two on any one day.

On the fip side, however, the very rapid rates of recovery in 4E will need to be addressed. While very cinematic, they are, I feel, rather...shall we say "generous" for my tastes. So what I propose is this: you can only spend healing surges until you are no longer Bloodied; you only get one Short Rest between encounters. After an Extended Rest, you recover any spent healing surges. You may THEN spend as many healing surges as you like, up to your full hit point total.

Earth Power's importance will need to be preserved (and so that WIS does not become the dump stat of choice), so here are a few thoughts: You cannot use a power whose level is higher than your Earth Power score (this will make the Sourlands very dangerous indeed, but will also encourage propitiation of the gods, with sacrifices of goods and victims by the PCs, something often overlooked by my players), and you may "spend" Earth Power to grant bonuses to attack rolls, damage rolls, or saves (1EP grants a +1 bonus). You cannot spend more than your WIS bonus + 1/2 level in this way .

So there you have my initial thoughts. I plan to tinker with and refine these as I continue to plan the campaign over the next few months, and, of course, I welcome feedback from those more familiar with the setting and campaign than me.

Regards,

N
 
Hello Constantine XI, welcome to the wild and wacky world of Slaine roleplaying.
I am afraid that I know nothing about DnD 4ED so a lot of what you are suggesting goes over my head. :?
However,in both D20 Slaine and MRQ Slaine it is quite possible for most characters to be able to cast spells so I don't think that you should have difficulties with that.
Let us know what happens when you play the campaign. We had great craic when we played it
 
Thanks for the welcome, I look forward to picking the collective brains of the experts and fans here, as I know less than nothing about the setting (well, apart from the sourcebooks, of course).

Here is an early attempt at converting some of the early combatants the PCs will face:

Bodditch, Human Tribal Warrior Level 2 Skirmisher
Medium natural humanoid (human) XP 125
Initiative +5 Senses Perception +7; Low-Light Vision
HP 38; Bloodied 19
AC 18; Fortitude 14; Reflex 16; Will 13
Speed 6
M Sneak Attack (standard; encounter) • Weapon
+10 vs. AC; (+2 combat advantage bonus accounted for); 1d6 + 2 + 2d6 sneak attack damage
The tribe of shadows warrior makes a sneak attack against a target against whom he has combat advantage. This does an additional +2d6 damage
m Short sword (standard; at-will) • Weapon
+8 vs. AC; 1d6 + 2 damage
r Javelin (standard; at-will) • Weapon
Ranged 10/20; +7 vs. AC; 1d6 + 2 damage
R Mobile Ranged Attack (standard; at-will)
The tribe of shadows warrior can move up to half its speed; at any point during that movement, it makes one ranged attack without provoking an opportunity attack.
Warrior's Tactics (immediate reaction, when missed by a melee attack; at-will)
The tribal warrior shifts 1 square.
Alignment Evil Languages Common
Str 15 (+3) Dex 18 (+5) Wis 13 (+2)
Con 14 (+3) Int 9 (---) Cha 12 (+2)
Equipment Leather Armor, Spear, Javelin x2, Light Shield, Short sword

Timmin, Human Tribal Warrior Level 2 Skirmisher
Medium natural humanoid (human) XP 125
Initiative +5 Senses Perception +7; Low-Light Vision
HP 38; Bloodied 19
AC 18; Fortitude 14; Reflex 16; Will 13
Speed 6
M Sneak Attack (standard; encounter) • Weapon
+10 vs. AC; (+2 combat advantage bonus accounted for); 1d6 + 2 + 2d6 sneak attack damage
The tribe of shadows warrior makes a sneak attack against a target against whom he has combat advantage. This does an additional +2d6 damage
m Short sword (standard; at-will) • Weapon
+8 vs. AC; 1d6 + 2 damage
r Javelin (standard; at-will) • Weapon
Ranged 10/20; +7 vs. AC; 1d6 + 2 damage
R Mobile Ranged Attack (standard; at-will)
The tribe of shadows warrior can move up to half its speed; at any point during that movement, it makes one ranged attack without provoking an opportunity attack.
Warrior's Tactics (immediate reaction, when missed by a melee attack; at-will)
The tribal warrior shifts 1 square.
Alignment Evil Languages Common
Str 15 (+3) Dex 18 (+5) Wis 13 (+2)
Con 14 (+3) Int 9 (---) Cha 9 (---)
Equipment Leather Armor, Spear, Javelin x2, Light Shield, Short sword

Shug, Warrior-woman, Tribe of Shadows Level 3 Skirmisher (Leader)
Medium natural humanoid (human) XP 150
Initiative +5 Senses Perception +7; Low-Light Vision
HP 46; Bloodied 23
AC 19; Fortitude 15; Reflex 17; Will 15
Speed 6
m Short sword (standard; at-will) • Weapon
+8 vs. AC; 1d6 + 2 damage
r Javelin (standard; at-will) • Weapon
Ranged 10/20; +7 vs. AC; 1d6 + 2 damage
C Cruel Taunt (move; encounter) • Psychic
Close blast 5; one enemy; +6 vs. Will; -2 the target is pulled 1 square, and grants Shug combat advantage until the start of his next turn
R Mobile Ranged Attack (standard; at-will)
The tribe of shadows warrior leader can move up to half its speed; at any point during that movement, it makes one ranged attack without provoking an opportunity attack.
Warrior's Tactics (immediate reaction, when missed by a melee attack; at-will)
The tribal warrior leader shifts 1 square.
Great Position
If, on its turn, the tribe of shadows warrior leader ends its move at least 4 squares away from its starting point, it deals an extra 1d6 damage on its ranged attacks until the start of its next turn.
M Sneak Attack (standard; encounter) • Weapon
+10 vs. AC; (+2 combat advantage bonus accounted for); 1d6 + 2 + 2d6 sneak attack damage
The tribe of shadows warrior makes a sneak attack against a target against whom he has combat advantage. This does an additional +2d6 damage
Alignment Evil Languages Common
Str 15 (+3) Dex 18 (+5) Wis 13 (+2)
Con 14 (+3) Int 9 (---) Cha 15 (+3)
Equipment Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing), Dagger, Heavy Shield, Short sword x2

You'll notice these characters are a little higher level than those in The Invulnerable King. This is because 4E sets an XP 'budget' of 400 XP for a level 1 encounter for a party of four 1st level PCs. If I want to ramp up the encounter difficulty, I can add four level 1 minions, making it a level 2 encounter, certainly a worthy challenge for our heroes.

Similarly, a 'typical' Fir Domain Noble Warrior, Swordmaster concept, could look something like this:

Fir Domain Sword Master, level 1
Human, Fighter
Fighter Talents: One-handed Weapon Talent
Background: Wandering Duelist (+3 Intimidate)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 14, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 12, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 10.


AC: 16 Fort: 17 Reflex: 15 Will: 11
HP: 29 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 7

TRAINED SKILLS
Heal +5, Streetwise +5, Athletics +7, Endurance +5

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics, Arcana, Bluff, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering, History, Insight, Intimidate, Nature, Perception, Religion, Stealth, Thievery

FEATS
Human: Action Surge
Level 1: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Feat User Choice: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade; bonus feat)

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Tide of Iron
Fighter at-will 1: Knockdown Assault
Fighter at-will 1: Cleave
Fighter encounter 1: Passing Attack
Fighter daily 1: Villain's Menace

ITEMS
Longsword (Iron Sword), Heavy Shield (Razor-edged Shield; treat as Spiked Shield), Leather Armor (Cuirboilli)

EARTH POWER: 6
 
Ooooh! I do like the look of the Fir Domain Swordmaster. 8)

The one thing that I would probably avoid is trying to apply traditional DnD alignment values to Slaine characters.
If you follow the story of the campaign, it is quite clear that Shug and her cronies are actually in opposition to the main villain of the piece. Are the PC's actually the evil ones because they have set out to do his bidding?
To me, they are simply defending their homeland from the Fir Domain aggressor. The term "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" should probably be applied here.
My own character, Breacan Ap Brann, a 12th level Noble Warrior of the Fir Domain, is considered honourable and wise/cunning. His career started as a lackey of the King in this campaign. He is definately not evil and is generally lenient with his cumalls. He would not, however, think twice about making a human sacrifice to the Goddess if it was required.

Shug actually appeared several times in our campaign.After being defeated, but spared, in the initial encounter she returned to haunt us on several occasions. Finally, she actually became my character's wife in a political move to try to negotiate a treaty with the Falians.
Following the events of the search for the cauldron of plenty she, and our son, ceased to exist as I was forced to give up something I loved to obtain this relic. :cry:
 
Very nice. I like the idea of recurring villains. I ran a 5-year long Birthright Campaign (three years of game time) which featured a handful of recurring villains with whom the PCs were forced to ally on occassion, much to their chagrin.

I take your point about alignment. I agree that the conventional standard need to be rethought. I think I'll likely consider most characters "unaligned" as the default, although Osdann certainly seems irredeemably evil in aanyone's language.

I'll need to play up the roleplaying aspects such as sacrifices, treatment of cumals, taunts, and the like. The risk with 4E is that the players rely too heavily on their cool powers at the expense of the roleplaying possibilities. There is some promise, however- one of the players will play a Fir Domain Noble Warrior (Warlord class), son of a member of the king's household. His job will be to bring the last man to muster to the royal tent...
 
I have heard that the 4ed is a Power Gamer's paradise. I personally tend more toward characterisation, but I must admit that I was momentarily swayed by the list of cool looking abilities for the Fir Domain swordsmaster.
Are your players familiar with the setting?
Osdann's Druid could use Murder of Crows to make a sacrifice to the Goddess in her aspect as Morrigan. Eugh :twisted:
There could also be the sacrifice that you are referring to as well as the mass slaughter of prisoners to gain the support of Lug.
Remember as well that in Slaine, Enech is everything.
 
Certainly 4E'd powers (I prefer the term 'exploits', myself, the name for martial powers) have the potential to overshadow other aspects of the game (because they're so much fun), but no so much more than have 3E/d20 feats. In fact,many of the 'powers' are simply stripped-down feats. Cleave is a great example; it is a 'feat-like' ability that is wrapped-up in a fighter's attack. If the condition is met (adjacent foe), the attack takes effect (automatic damage on a successful hit against the primary target).

Likewise, in the example swordmaster fighter, tide of iron and knockdown assault are not dissimilar to Improved Bull Rush, or the like, just much simpler in execution, ans considered part of the fighter's effect.

Just for kicks, I created a barbarian character, which would correspond to a typical (PC) tribal warrior (NPCs are handled differently; they do not play by the same rules as PCs):

Fir Domain Tribal Warrior, level 1
Human, Barbarian
Build: Thaneborn Barbarian
Background: Occupation - Farmer

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 13.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 11.


AC: 11 Fort: 17 Reflex: 12 Will: 12
HP: 29 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 7

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +4, Intimidate +6, Endurance +7, Athletics +9

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics, Arcana, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering -1, Heal -1, History, Insight -1, Perception -1, Religion, Stealth, Streetwise +1, Thievery

FEATS
Human: Action Surge
Level 1: Powerful Charge

POWERS
Barbarian at-will 1: Howling Strike
Barbarian at-will 1: Pressing Strike
Bonus At-Will Power: Recuperating Strike
Barbarian encounter 1: Great Cleave
Barbarian daily 1: Bloodhunt Rage

ITEMS
Heavy Shield (razor-edged shield), Leather Armor (leather tunic), Greataxe (flint great-axe), Javelin (iron javelin), Longsword (iron sword)

EP: 5

Howling Strike, for me, is very reminiscent (thematically, not necessarily mechanically) of Battle Cry, Great Cleave is not dissimilar to Sundered Heads, Bloodhunt Rage nicely represents the Rage power, and so on. At higher levels, the parallels become even more apparent, which is why I was prompted to return to Slaine in the first place- it seems too good an opportunity to pass up.

By keeping a (largely) all martial party, most of whom will take WIS as a dump stat, and tying EP to use of powers/exploits, I hope to encourage the PCs to consider sacrifice of goods, prisoners in the hope of accumulating EP prior to any upcoming battles. Certainly the NPCs around them will lead by example.
 
So,I've been thinking aloud about how to implement spellcasting; there are seven classes of spells. I thought I'd tie some of these to character backgrounds, and some to training in particular skills, as follows:

Bardic Magic---------Birth: Omen or Society: Noble background (CHA)
Blessings-------------Trained in Religion skill
Curses--------------- Birth: Cursed or Society: Criminal background (CHA)
Divinations-----------Birth: Prophecy background (WIS)
Glamours-------------Trained in Bluff skill (CHA)
Nature Magic---------Trained in Nature skill
Summonings---------Trained in Arcana skill

(For the uninitiated, characters choose backgrounds from the following categories:
Birth (among another race, blessed, cursed, omen, prophecy), Geography, Occupation (artisan, criminal, farmer, military, and scholar), Society (noble, poor, wealthy)).

Base EPs as per Slaine: 6 + WIS bonus + Class bonuses (see below).
Number of known spells :higher of INT bonus or WIS bonus +1 per 2 levels spells for which you meet the prerequisites.
Magic Attack Roll: d20 + CHA bonus + MAB by class.

With respect to MAB and EP bonuses, consider the Slaine classes "concepts" for the available 4E classes: Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger (Tribal Warrior), Warlord, Fighter (Noble Warrior), Rogue (Thief), Warlock (Witch).

For Example: Math the Cunning Man, (Witch, thematically, 4E Warlock (fey pact), mechanically) has the following backbrounds: Birth: Cursed, Geography (Lands of the Fir Domain), Occupation: Criminal, Society: Wealthy).

He has INT 12 (+1), WIS 14 (+2), and CHA 18 (+4)

He is Trained in Arcana, Religion, Bluff, Intimidate

He knows 2 spells (in addition to 4E Warlock powers), which can be from among the following types of spells:
Curses, Blessings, Glamours, Summonings.

Magic Attack Roll: d20 + CHA (4) + Witch class MAB (0) = d20 + 4

Base Earth Power: 6 + WIS bonus (2) + Witch class benefit (+1 base EP) = 9

Thoughts?
 
Looks good CXI.
I can't remember Math from the campaign(though it is several years since we played it). Is he one of your own NPC's?

I think I would probably not put the Noble background restriction on Bardic magic. IIRC are Bards not just Druids that have not completed their Druidic training for one reason or another?

Also, I wouldn't place the criminal background restriction upon curses. I reckon any Druid worth his salt should know a few curses. Keeps the flock in line by threat, if necessary.
 
Thanks for the feedback, Tarkan Bey.

Math is an NPC I just threw together (I didn't realise there was a Math from the campaign, and haven't come across him yet).

For Bardic magic, I (arbitrarily, it must be said) put one of two backgrounds: Birth-Omen OR Social-Noble, the first to reflect some kind of magical connection, the second to represent aspects of a priveliged character's training.

Again, for Curses, I arbitrarily chose the criminal background, but am happy to entertain any other suggestions offered.

Perhaps I should consider making a minor weird a prerequisite for casting certain types of spells. Is there an expanded list of these somewhere?

Bards and Druids will be kept strictly as NPCs; they don't strike me as murderous adventuring types, and I want to maintain a sense of mystique about them, working behind the scenes. Since they are NPCs normal character creation rules don't apply: the 4E philosophy is they can do whatever you want them to do, in the context of the story.
 
My first take on this would be restrict the classes to Martial and Primal.

Fighter - Noble Warrior
Ranger - Hunter
Rogue - Rogue
Warlord - Cheiftain

Barbarian - Barbarian
Druid - Witch
Shaman - Druid
Warden - Warped One

Not sure what else would be needed from a PC POV :)
 
Daithi O'an tSionnaigh said:
I know your keen on using 4th ed. However If you ever feel like checking it out I would suggest picking up the RQSlaine book and give it a whirl.

Seconded. It seems like an awful lot of effort to adapt 4E when there is a perfectly good rpg already. And one that probably describes the setting better.
 
My personal thoughts of 4E will be reserved but given the boards and the company that hosts them it only makes sense to use the system they provide. You don't have to and I definitely commend your efforts however RQ + Slaine make for a better fit and capture the harsh and unforgiving world that Slaine is about. Also it saves you some work.
 
I'm with Daithi on this Constantine. Your efforts are very commendable and I did feel a slight pull back towards D20 after looking at your ideas. However, MRQ is IMO the best way forward for Slaine. Give it a try my friend, It is only recently that I have converted. Theres a whole different vibe to it now and if you can chalk up twenty kills now to get a point of enech you really are pretty special. 8)
Will still be glad to offer constructive criticism of your ideas if you decide to stick with your 4ed course of action. Each to their own. :)
 
PrinceYyrkoon said:
Seconded. It seems like an awful lot of effort to adapt 4E when there is a perfectly good rpg already. And one that probably describes the setting better.

I actually think it would be easier to adapt 4e to Slaine than it was 3e to Slaine. As noted above, given 4e's modular system, all you need to do is reskin the odd thing and remove certain elements.
 
Given the vast sums of money I've spent on d20 Slaine (and Conan OGL), and the equally-large sums of money spent on 4E materials, and my group's reluctance to entertain playing anything other than d20/4E, and my disappointment with the black and white recycled art and lack of support for MRQ Slaine, the prospect of my switching systems is very low. If Slaine is anything like Conan (and I suspect it is, in many respects), then 4E elements will work well for our group. Besides, they're keen on revisiting Conan again, sigh.
 
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