127th Angry Angels
Mongoose
Might be a stupid question (not being an arms expert) but 30.cals are not in the armory section for US infantry. I thought they were very prominent in WW2. Is it a deliberate omission?
.30 Cal MG's [WAW]
- Thread starter 127th Angry Angels
- Start date
It is the bog standard MG on many of the vehicles. It could be done as a separate team, which would be the same size as the HMG support team but with a worse gun.
Use the Stats:
Range - 24"
Damage - 2D6
Traits - Auto, Prone
Drop the cost of the team by 15 points.
I think everyone with a choice would take the .50 cal, and this is why it has been left out of the book.
.30 cals were seen a lot though, and were widely used in the Pacific. The Besa machine gun commonly seen on British tanks is based on it as well, and the Poles and Swedes also had infantry versions.
Most famous non-American use was as the Browning .303, used in Spitfires and Hurricanes.
Use the Stats:
Range - 24"
Damage - 2D6
Traits - Auto, Prone
Drop the cost of the team by 15 points.
I think everyone with a choice would take the .50 cal, and this is why it has been left out of the book.
.30 cals were seen a lot though, and were widely used in the Pacific. The Besa machine gun commonly seen on British tanks is based on it as well, and the Poles and Swedes also had infantry versions.
Most famous non-American use was as the Browning .303, used in Spitfires and Hurricanes.
127th Angry Angels
Mongoose
Cheers, guys. I will give it a try at some point as i have the mini's.
I can see the logic in it's ommision but it could be useful to represent historic formations or a bit points shaving.
Thanks for the answers
I can see the logic in it's ommision but it could be useful to represent historic formations or a bit points shaving.
Thanks for the answers
Ben2 said:
Fine, but historically a US Infantry Company's Weapons Platoon had 2xM1919 LMGs and 3x60mm Mortars (another weapon missing entirely). The battalion Heavy Machine Gun platoons were equipped with M1917 HMGs. No M2's there at all in the TO&E.
Additionally, the stats for the BAR look out of line with it's historical performance. It seems that the Bren Gun, arguably the best LMG in Allied service, is inferior to the BAR.
Just a few things to consider when you are working on errata.
Mac said:
I feel that the Bar is seriously overrated in the list; it's better than the MG42 and the Bren, at least when carried, which seems wrong. Also, as you said, shouldn't the HMG teams have the .30 instead? Same thing for the jeep, it should have a .30. It wasn't equipped with the M2 .50 because it was too damn big for a small jeep!
And the .30 is still in the list; US combat engineers can switch their flamethrower for a .30, but it's stats aren't anywhere. Another thing for when the errata is released.
Rabidchild
Mongoose
Laffe said:
I love the BAR just as it is, so keeping my bias in mind my argument for the BAR being better on the move is this: BAR = 20lbs (loaded), MG42 = 25lbs, bren gun = 22lbs and a magazine on the top. From this list, the BAR is the lightest and has the same weight distribution of a conventional rifle (ie no side drum/belt feed or top magazine). Seems like it would be the easiest to raise to your shoulder, aim and fire while pausing. So, stats seem fine to me!
Rabidchild
Mongoose
DM said:Top magazine is FAR easier to reload when firing prone (he says from personal experience), so I wouldn't say the BAR wins on that point
Certainly, but I'm talking about on the move, not prone. The Bren gets 4 shots when set up prone, something the BAR can't do. So yes, I think we agree with the rules here.
To be honest I found the Bren simpler to reload on the move than a weapon with bottom mounted magazine, but that was obviously just a "me" thing since "no one makes 'em like that any more"
Of course the Bren scores very highly with its blank firing adapter (aka "Masher Barrel") during night shoots which gives it visual qualities somewhat akin to a flamethrower
Rabidchild said:
Yes, easier to fire, but with only a 20 round magazine, compared to the higher RoF and 50/75 round drums for the MG42. And remember, german squad doctrine was centered around the MG, so the gunners were trained to move and fire (in an assault for instance). The BAR was actually just an assault rifle trying to play the LMG role.
But I will have to play some more games first 8)
I think we all have to realise that Agis is the author of the game, caught between a rock (the players) and a hard place (Mongoose Publishing). Agis wants to defend his game, and make it as good as possible for all of us, Mongoose wants to make money and develop other projects too, to make more money.
I think it's very good that we have the author here on the forum, so don't be too hard on Agis guys.
Now, that being said, before the Forum vanished just recently, you had posted some stats (and points) for the .30-cal. I would be very glad if you could repost them Agis, since I intend to use them instead of .50's in my games as a house rule. Please? Pretty please with sugar on top?
I think it's very good that we have the author here on the forum, so don't be too hard on Agis guys.
Now, that being said, before the Forum vanished just recently, you had posted some stats (and points) for the .30-cal. I would be very glad if you could repost them Agis, since I intend to use them instead of .50's in my games as a house rule. Please? Pretty please with sugar on top?
Laffe said:
All going well, the WaW Player's Guide with the .30-cals will be up today!
Laffe said:
Thanks for the nice words. But honestly for me it is more the rock. :wink:
I never ever experienced such a mistrusting gamer community.
There are so many bad feelings on this forum I am just amazed.
Everything has to be a typo;
if one source says 3 MGs on a vehicle and another 2 MGs - whatever we use - we are wrong;
if vehicle X or Y is missing it is the most important vehicle of the late war;
if a SMG is missing, it is a terrible thing (even all SMGs got the same stats);
if somebody can't kill a Tiger with infantry the game has to be wrong
etc
etc
Guys - play the game and have fun!
