2nd edition

I know plans have been in the background for a while to allow ACTA (emphasis allow, not require) ro be used to do the battles if the players want to. whether this will be included in B5 2E is yet to be seen, it would be cool though.

LBH
 
If you want to know what the starship combat system in 2e will be like check out the WARs RPG.

Trust me the system works fine and is very tactical.
 
Neo said:
If you want to know what the starship combat system in 2e will be like check out the WARs RPG.

Trust the system works fine and is very tactical.

I don't have Wars, nor do I plan to get it. Could you give us a brief overview of what the starship combat system looks like?
 
If noone else has by tomorrow then ill post an example of combat using the WARS system then.

Need sleep now....
 
Okay where to begin..

Ships:
first stat blocks.. ship stat blocks in B5 2e are much as they were in 1e. Ships still have a size, type, DV, armour, handling, stealth, sensors, crew, weapons and special qualities..

However vessels are also broken down into spaces.. namely weapon, control, engine and structure spaces. these represent all aspects of what make up the vessel from bridges, quarters, life support, hangars etc..

Assigning Crew:
Before most combats especially with player characters you have them assigned specific roles on a ship.. your best BAB guy is on weapons, your best pilot is at the controls, your guy with the best technical is in engineering etc.. so on PC vesels everyone can be involved to some degree.

Detection:
All combats start with Detection (an opposed sensor vs stealth check) if one vessel remains unaware of the other they can get a surprise action in the form of a free offensive order if desired.

Positioning:
Once vessels are detected the range is determined, range is broken down into three categories.. Close, Long and Disengaged. Range as with normal combat has an effect on numerous other aspects of combat such as hit chance, certain actions that can or cannot be performed etc..

Actions:
Okay.. next come actions. All vessels are entitled to one offensive, one defensive and one tactical order per round..
Orders can take many forms as ill mention below. Depending on the competence of your captain (determined by his knowledge tactics skill) and the skill of his crew may entitle them to more orders per round than this, but those are special as they are held in reserve and are called responses and are used to respond to the actions of the opposing vessel or circumstances that arise.

Note:It is possible to have less than 3 orders but usually it only happens with fighters or total novices behind the controls... in these instances then much like Partial actions in standard D&D these vessels can perform one kind of action or the other in a round but not all three.

All Tactical orders are determined first in a round the order is determined in much the same way as an initiative check would be except it is the commanders tactics + crew training that is used as the modifier.

Then Offensive orders and finally Defensive orders.. at the end of the round any unused responses (if any were available) may be used as a single additional last moment tactical order.

Orders:
Okay.. the Orders themselves constitute all the normal kinds of actions you would expect in any combat such as moving, firing, repositioning, dealing with crises, special manoeuvres etc...

e.g. Offensive orders all deal with attacking such as
All Hands...Fire At Will, which is a standard tactical order whereby the vessel fires at any vessel within the relevant arcs (front, rear, left, right..all weapons will be available in one of these on a vessel), with any weapons it wishes to fire.

Defensive orders deal with reducing the effectiveness of attacks or damage caused and Tactical Orders are all about moving and um..well tactics that can affect your lot in numerous ways.. tactical orders also covers things like jumping in and out, dealing with damage by starting repairs, boarding, through to getting in the escape pods and abandoning ship... Orders on the whole are a lot like those in ACTA in the form of special actions.

All orders of all kinds require a skill check of some kind (an Attack roll for shooting orders, through to a technical check for repairs or piloting checks for a manoeuvres) to have them performed..representing the crews competence and speed at responding to orders.. failing this check can mean it either doesnt happen (in the case of offensive or defensive orders) or that some result other than what was desired occured (in the case of tactical orders).
Some orders also require what is called a Stress check which is literally a test to see how well the vessel stands up to the stress of perofrming a certain manoeuvre with failure causing some damage to the vessel.

Damage:
Okay when a ship is successfully struck by an attack, you determine damage. Vessels in 2e do not have damage in the way weapons did in 1e.. i.e 2d10+20.. instead they have an offensive rating. A Light Fusion cannon has an offensive rating of 15 for example. You compare this rating and add +1 for every 5 points by which your attack rolll surpoassed the opposing vessels defence is compared to 20 +the Armor rating of the vessel (10+armor for fighters) the difference being the amount of damage inflicted in Spaces on the opposing vessel(s).
The exact type of spaces damaged is determined randomly (unless an order which allows you to aim for a specific type is used).

This is where the system really comes into its own.. for example say you take damage to weapon spaces.. your first 4 may be your fusion cannons, your next 4 may represent your heavy laser cannons... as those spaces are taken out so are your weapons.
Likewise your Structure spaces.. the first 10 may be your crew (1 of which you may have allocated to a notable NPC on board), the next 20 may be your fighter hangars..the final 10 your cargo.. as these get hit so do those parts of your ship..you lose crew..cargo.. Pc's quarters and possibly the pc's themselves may get hit..hangars destroyed preventing you from launching fighters..etc..

Control spaces representing crucial areas or systems like the Bridge..as these get this you suffer a penalty to command, which affects your ability to perform all orders..and therefore actions.

Engine spaces.. as these get destroyed your manoeuvrability decreases and so does your defence.. possibly even leaving your vessel adrift.

Armor Damage
Also when you attack a vessel the offensive rating +1 for each 5 points over the defence divided by 5 is also the amount of an opponents armour that they have removed allowing you to wear down larger vessels protection.

And thats it... the system is fast its detailed and its fun.. yes it is more narrative than the previous system but you can still use miniatures or maps if you want.

Personally I love the new system and I imagine it should appeal to any ACTA players out there too.
 
That's nice to hear, a company that makes minor tweaks between editions. I looked over the WotC conversions for D&D and Star Wars and they hurt too much to even consider.
 
lastbesthope said:
I like the sound of this Neo, thanks for posting. Hope we didn't get you in trouble with the NDA police :lol:

LBH

shouldn't be an issue LBH as the starship system used already exists in print via the WARs RPG. So im not giving out info that isnt already out there.
 
Neo said:
Long Description

I have to admit, that doesn't sound half bad. When I read that it would change to a narrative system, I was thinking of the poor 1st edition Star Wars system. This one sounds like it will involve all the players, which is a definite plus, but will still allow for tactical positioning. I look forward to seeing it. :)
 
Neo said:
shouldn't be an issue LBH as the starship system used already exists in print via the WARs RPG. So im not giving out info that isnt already out there.

Really must get around to reading my Wars books.

LBH
 
Neo said:
Okay where to begin..


Personally I love the new system and I imagine it should appeal to any ACTA players out there too.

Thanks for explaining the new system, especially to those of us who do not have WARS!

Much obliged! :D

DW
 
lastbesthope said:
Neo said:
shouldn't be an issue LBH as the starship system used already exists in print via the WARs RPG. So im not giving out info that isnt already out there.

Really must get around to reading my Wars books.

LBH

Definitely worth checking out LBH.. although I had no background with the CCG and so was new to WARs when I began playtesting the various RPG books Mongoose produced for it, I have to say it is a very appealing Sci Fi game.. it has a very Buck Rogers meets Serenity feel to it.
 
Oh I have got them all Neo, and I too have no background in the CCG, though I picked a couplre of decks up that were reduced at m local FLGS after I bought the RPG.

I just need time to read them, maybe after the tourney, and when I take my XMas leave from work.

LBH
 
Don't forget the new skills and changes to old ones, like joing spot & listen into one skill Notice. Technical into use it and fix/make it. Cultural knowledge skills. Influence for everyone.

(By the may Matt, is that your cat and if so, how come it had that expression. I lived at a breeding cattery for 5 years and never saw anything remotely similar to that one. It looks like it's swallowed something that it thought was edible. )
 
Barbara said:
Don't forget the new skills and changes to old ones, like joing spot & listen into one skill Notice. Technical into use it and fix/make it. Cultural knowledge skills. Influence for everyone.

The skill changes aren't significant, though i'd have grouped up a few more than actually were. As the skills that got grouped tended to be of the same stat type..whereas personally i'd have changed the attrib relevant to a skill if it meant putting a likely skill for intrigue under the intrigue skill heading etc.. but the writers preference was apparently to leave things as they had them.

Influence is a really nice addition..very reminiscent of Allegiances a la conan..sort of rolled up together with Reputation. works well.
 
Morden said:
I'll probably get the 2nd edition, but I may keep using the system in the original game if the narrative ship combat system is what I think it will be.

I'm probably going to run a 1.5 campaign myself. Personally, I like the idea of a narrative ship combat system and I like what I've heard about the updated telepath rules. I am <i>not</i> a fan of them making Defense Value even lower since I think that it's already to rediculously easy to kill people in the current system. Like you, I would like to see an increase in HP especially since they're lowering DV and just making it a class feature rather than something that you can (at least on a limited level) control by increasing stats.

I'm also curious if they're going to change some of the medical rules because I still think that the alien anatomy feat is a cheat. There ought to be some middle ground between taking a -10 on all medical checks on a creature that isn't of your race and being completely proficient at treating all races even ones you've never heard of before or that have bodies that aren't based on carbon or etc etc...
 
Dastari said:
Morden said:
I'll probably get the 2nd edition, but I may keep using the system in the original game if the narrative ship combat system is what I think it will be.

I'm probably going to run a 1.5 campaign myself. Personally, I like the idea of a narrative ship combat system and I like what I've heard about the updated telepath rules. I am <i>not</i> a fan of them making Defense Value even lower since I think that it's already to rediculously easy to kill people in the current system. Like you, I would like to see an increase in HP especially since they're lowering DV and just making it a class feature rather than something that you can (at least on a limited level) control by increasing stats.

I'm also curious if they're going to change some of the medical rules because I still think that the alien anatomy feat is a cheat. There ought to be some middle ground between taking a -10 on all medical checks on a creature that isn't of your race and being completely proficient at treating all races even ones you've never heard of before or that have bodies that aren't based on carbon or etc etc...

Defence isnt an issue like you think.. it isnt tied to reflex save anymore and instead progresses with class. Is defence lowered um.. well simple anser is Yes AND No.
Defence actually starts off higher than 1e on the whole, but because there are only 10 class levels not 20 then yes obviously it also doesnt go as high.. but when you consider your jumping into prestiges who themselves follow Defence progressions then you can actually end up with defences that are as high if not quite a bit higher than 1e.

Medical skill is unchanged.
 
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