2300AD

Colin said:
So if there were, say, an alien invasion, it would have to be confined to a limited region, and there would have to be a good reason why it was confined. If not, then it would quickly dominate the entire game world, to the detriment of the other campaign types.

Isolated region cut off from most of the rest of space? Something along the lines of areas in the Reft Sector perhaps.

Specific resources located there that the aliens where in need of, with no interest in other areas?

Large alien population in that region, mixed with the human population that they wanted to "liberate"?

Maybe not an invasion but some disaster effected that region of space and the aliens where quick to offer aid and then annexed as repayment?
 
Couple of background items.

The 2300 AD universe is small, about 120 light years across, and much of it inaccessible to stutterwarps.

The aliens in question in classic 2300AD, the Kafers, have a biological drive for violence, based on the function of the adrenaline analogue in their brains: violence makes then smarter, so they really like violence, preferably personal violence. And they are xeno-phobic to an extreme degree. They were created specifically to be an alien that could not be reasoned with. Think personalities like Reavers in Firefly, who look like shorter versions of the alien from Predator.
 
2300AD has several tech assumptions that help set the tone for the universe:
No artificial/anti-gravity
Stutterwarp travel
helicopters, tilt-rotors, and and x-wing helicopters
hovertanks
reaction-drive surface to orbit vessels
combat landers
No AI
walker vehicles
airships
Advanced genetic engineering
solar power satellites
fusion and fission power
 
middenface said:
Lord High Munchkin said:
middenface said:
Making it less gun happy is pc'ness and dumbing down
It's not "dumbing down", it's "raising up"!
My apologies I stand corrected.
It's not that my opinion is "gospel", it's merely that the military angle tended (tends) to swamp out all the other areas... it's such an easy trope to fall into.

Give it an inch and one has 'Macho Marines with Guns' in no time.
 
It think 2300AD should be Blade Runner when on earth. Aliens when at war. Outland when in space and Firefly when on a colony world.

But thats just me. :wink:
 
middenface said:
I'd be curious how you handle the Twilight War.

Please leave in the Twilight War. There are still several feasible ways Earth could blow up into a global destructive war that far outweigh the chances of an asteroid strike. I know, I'm sorry Colin you've heard me say this before, but tossing the Twilight War for an asteroid impact could make a great story, but it's another nudge towards something other then 2300 AD.

I would say leaving the modern through 2050 AD backstory pretty vague. Mention a Twilight War, but you don't have to throw in lots of details. That way, those what want to use the classic Twilight 2000 background can, others could use the updated Twilight 2013 background, and still others could make it something completely to their own liking. You just need a global civilization-harming war to fit in with the classic 2300 AD story.
 
The back story isn't exactly up to me. I really don't know what it will be at this moment, to be honest.
Like I said above, at this point I favour some sort of catastrophically stupid war, ended by a regional-scale asteroid strike.
 
Colin said:
So if there were, say, an alien invasion, it would have to be confined to a limited region, and there would have to be a good reason why it was confined. If not, then it would quickly dominate the entire game world, to the detriment of the other campaign types.
If it were my setting, I would most probably delete the alien invasion in
order to replace it with a series of lower intensity border skirmishes limi-
ted to a comparatively small disputed region of space - a "red zone" whe-
re military operations are common, but without these operations spilling
over into other regions of space.
Just think of our real world history, where nations in Europe kept the pea-
ce and traded with each other while their forces fought an ongoing unde-
clared war "beyond the line" in the Caribbean.
 
rust said:
Colin said:
So if there were, say, an alien invasion, it would have to be confined to a limited region, and there would have to be a good reason why it was confined. If not, then it would quickly dominate the entire game world, to the detriment of the other campaign types.
If it were my setting, I would most probably delete the alien invasion in
order to replace it with a series of lower intensity border skirmishes limi-
ted to a comparatively small disputed region of space - a "red zone" whe-
re military operations are common, but without these operations spilling
over into other regions of space.
Just think of our real world history, where nations in Europe kept the pea-
ce and traded with each other while their forces fought an ongoing unde-
clared war "beyond the line" in the Caribbean.

But you can't do that with the Kafers. They will not be reasoned with, they will not show mercy and they absolutly will not stop until humanity is dead. They have no interest in a red zone, just killing us. To them we are everything that is scary and bad, we are the bogeymen that the Kafer parents scare their children with. And fighting and killing us makes them smarter, and more able to understand why we are so dangerous to them.

That's one of the beauties of 2300AD. The aliens aren't just guys in rubber suits - they have motivations and society and psychology that is ALIEN to us - not just another version of us with a bumpy forehead or turban (by which I mean the Zhos).

G.
 
Colin said:
The back story isn't exactly up to me. I really don't know what it will be at this moment, to be honest.
Like I said above, at this point I favour some sort of catastrophically stupid war, ended by a regional-scale asteroid strike.

I don't like the asteroid strike, as i believe i have mentioned elsewhere. I think we are quite capable of almost destroying ourselves without needing a NEO impact, and adding an impact lessens the emotional impact of our nearly extinguishing ourselves DELIBERATLY.

G.
 
GJD said:
But you can't do that with the Kafers.
I know, and if it were my setting I would either delete or severely modify
the Kafers, from my point of view their psychology and society as descri-
bed are extremely implausible - none of my players would ever accept
that.
 
rust said:
GJD said:
But you can't do that with the Kafers.
I know, and if it were my setting I would either delete or severely modify
the Kafers, from my point of view their psychology and society as descri-
bed are extremely implausible - none of my players would ever accept
that.

How so?
 
I would love to see the level of detail in any 2300AD books equal to that of the Aliens: Colonial Marine Technical Manual. Unfortunately that was just military equipment, but the layout and level of detail was beautiful. The tech level seems to be about right for 2300AD, so maybe it could be used for inspiration or something.
 
gloomhound said:
According to 2300 AD, the Kafers respond to danger with temporarily rai-
sed intelligence, and "Kafers who are spectators to another’s danger ex-
perience this response as well".

Even an only mildly intelligent Kafer would soon have hit upon the obvi-
ous idea to introduce gladiatorial games to raise the intelligence of all of
the spectators, which would have enabled the Kafers to avoid any other
form of intraspecies violence, because this is a serious problem for the
functioning of a technological civilization.

In the end something like a "Roman" civilization with mandatory daily vi-
sits to the circus games to keep the citizens' intelligence high, but with
strictly enforced non-violence outside of the circus in order to keep the
civilization running smoothly, would have been a far more likely result
of the Kafers' biology.
 
rust said:
gloomhound said:
According to 2300 AD, the Kafers respond to danger with temporarily rai-
sed intelligence, and "Kafers who are spectators to another’s danger ex-
perience this response as well".

Even an only mildly intelligent Kafer would soon have hit upon the obvi-
ous idea to introduce gladiatorial games to raise the intelligence of all of
the spectators, which would have enabled the Kafers to avoid any other
form of intraspecies violence, because this is a serious problem for the
functioning of a technological civilization.

In the end something like a "Roman" civilization with mandatory daily vi-
sits to the circus games to keep the citizens' intelligence high, but with
strictly enforced non-violence outside of the circus in order to keep the
civilization running smoothly, would have been a far more likely result
of the Kafers' biology.

A valid point. However, the cycle of Kafer pre-history didn't allow for that to happen. The early kafers that settled down in the their safe places lost the daily boost that the "smart barbarian" tribes kept with the constant struggles. Thus any "safe place" fell victim to periodic destruction by the smart barbarians.

G.
 
justacaveman said:
... 'Aliens'... maybe it could be used for inspiration or something.
Sorry about paraphrasing, but It pretty much was.

The cover and weapons of 'Traveller: 2300' (perhaps in retrospect a bad choice of name) are largely 'Aliens' inspired. The whole first edition sort of had that vibe.

As to things that would be handy in a revised 2300AD, I have a looong list....

One thing that would be useful would be a figure of the total number of starships in existence. A reasonably accurate figure for each nation's military (with an idea of technological modernity) and one more roughly for their commercial.

Additionally putting a figure (for GM purposes) on the level of military starship R&D might be an idea — what it is doesn't even need to be necessarily defined. If it's known (as secret capability) that a nation only has two top-secret projects on the go, with only 1-2 prototypes each, that would go a long way to kill-off the overwhelming desire to just add in the French/US/Germann/Incan/whoever's "latest-super-secret-über-killer-super-hi-tech-special-forces", but magically fully usable warship. Again and again.

Things that can take in real-life decades to design and build do have a habit of just "turning-up" in RPGs to save the day (repeatedly).

But above all, what the setting needs badly is more (actually in some cases, any) detailed description of the life on the various planets and quality MAPS!!! Information such as (off the top of my head) what cities on Tirane are like — so PCs can actually "do things" there.
 
rust said:
In my view a touch of Jack McDevitt's science fiction would be nice, a
mixture of hard science fiction with the mysteries of an old universe.

I agree. I have longed planned on running a 2300 campaign using McDevitt extensively.
 
Lord High Munchkin said:
One thing that would be useful would be a figure of the total number of starships in existence. A reasonably accurate figure for each nation's military (with an idea of technological modernity) and one more roughly for their commercial.

Additionally putting a figure (for GM purposes) on the level of military starship R&D might be an idea — what it is doesn't even need to be necessarily defined. If it's known (as secret capability) that a nation only has two top-secret projects on the go, with only 1-2 prototypes each, that would go a long way to kill-off the overwhelming desire to just add in the French/US/Germann/Incan/whoever's "latest-super-secret-über-killer-super-hi-tech-special-forces", but magically fully usable warship. Again and again.

Here is a cross-post of stuff I once worked on in that direction based on how the real-life US military allocates budgets. It might be useful for this.
I knew from the start that my idea would not follow canon very closely ( why I posted this in IMTU ), but then again, I felt the force levels in the OTU were too big, so the numbers I'll use make things more to my liking anyways. I am also working to make a general organizational budget such that the same methods can be used for any branch of service, and perhaps even merchant fleets. I also think that using different allocations can be assigned to different races' budget to give different flavors to the races' forces. Giving a low R&D allocation to the Vilani budget, for example. I'll make a couple of notes concerning ideas on how to use the various parts in my example.

keep in mind that the numbers/percentages I'm using are off the top of my head and are not ideal. Naturally, as this is an annual budget, the allocations can be changed each year as conditions warrant.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
B-877888-B pop mod=5
peacetime military 3%
non imperial and 60% of the military budget going to the navy
18,000*.65*5e8*.03*.60 = 105.300,000,000 Crimp

allocations:
R&D__________________7%.........7,371,000,000
Appropriations__________28%........29,484,000,000
Operations_____________33%........34,749,000,000
Personnel______________32%........33,696,000,000

....I'm thinking of using R&D as reasearch and devolopment of new equipment. This includes naval architect costs as well as costs for mock-up and evaluation. This amount might be split up among different contractors to produce prototypes for head-2-head comparisons before awarding a contract. An example of this would be the contest between the yf-22 and the yf-23.
....I'll figure that the research spending allows for the construction of 10 times the amount spent on any single project. So, for example, if you wish to upgrade the main gun on a ship that would cost 2,000,000,000Crimp, you'd use 200,000,000Crimp of R&D before you actually begin such an upgrade. This represents designing fittings and adapting things to a specific class of ship. If the costs for R&D to build a completely new class of ship, you'd have to spend this amount over a period of years until the costs are paid. If you wish to build a ship whose design already exists,then, as the R&D has already been paid already, you won't need to pay it again unless you are making a change/upgrade whereupon you'd only need to pay R&D costs for that change/upgrade.
Just because the R&D costs are paid does not mean the project has to be followed through upon... mbt70, Sgt York, AH-56 Cheyenne are examples of this.

R&D: 7,371,000,000 Crimps allows for the design of up to 73,710,000,000 of new construction and/or upgrading existing equipment.

Appropriations; 29,484,000,000 Crimp of new construction allowed for the year. If shipbuilding project costs more, then the payments continue with each year's budget until the full amount is paid.
This part of the budget is what pays for replacement equipment that is damaged or destroyed.

Operations; 34,749,000,000 Crimps allow for a fleet total cost of 347,490,000,000 given the idea that ops/maint is 10% of total unit cost.

Personnel; 33,696,000,000 Crimps... divided by 2* per capita for the tech of the owning world ( 18,000 in this case ) to give the total number of crew members and assuming a 3:1 ratio of support personnel to deployed personnel gives the total crew that are in the fleet/unit.
33,696,000,000/36,000 = 936,000 total manpower with 234,000 deployed in the fleet.
per capita * 1 are green crew
per capita * 2 are normal
per capita * 3 are experienced
per capita * 4 are elite
----------------------------------------
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=20618
It was argued that it was not 'realistic', lol
It should also work for commercial budgets too but where merchants port fees, etc. as part of the overall "merchant ship" O&M

And I think 2300AD military should have the look'n'feel of Macshinen Krieger even thought the focus should be on settling and exploring.
Of course those things are only the props and scenery for the characters to play in front of.
 
Thank you, this is very interesting. :D

Could you perhaps explain the calculation of the total annual budget
(18,000*.65*5e8*.03*.60 = 105.300,000,000 Crimp), I am not sure
that I have understood the various factors, especially the "5e8" ?

Thank you. :)
 
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