2300AD Starship Design

[Colin]

I'm going to use this space to solicit comments on reconciling Mongoose traveller ship design and 2300Ad ship design. This design system will take parts of the Core Book, High Guard and Scouts (for sensors), but will primarily be a modification of the Core Book design system.

The most critical issue is power plants and stutterwarp. I'm thinking assigning a number to each power plant type, and basing the stutterwarp calculations on that number.

As I get closer to having an actual design system, I will be looking for 2-3 people to help me playtest it, mostly by creating designs until it breaks.

 

[AndrewW]

Maybe try applying the capital ship percentage system instead of the drives and power plant sizes being based on a fixed hull size with nothing in between?

Sounds like fun, play with some numbers and see how it works out.

 

[rinku]

Yeah, I'd agree with no "off the shelf" drives.

No anti-gravity means the various options in High Guard for spun hulls etc are useful.

If you have or can source it, the Traveller New Era technical architecture sourcebook Fire Fusion & Steel has pretty much all the detail you need for 2300AD, including stutterwarp drive data.

 

[GJD]

You might need to consider the differences in design systems for small craft as well, since there will be stutterwarp capable small craft- missiles, drones and so on. AFAIK there is no jumpdrive info for small craft.

I've never actually designed a ship under MGT, so i offer my services as a total noob!

 

[Jame Rowe]

I would say limit total ship size to 100,000 tons, with most ships coming in under 50,000 tons - but that being because noone can afford to build ships larger than 50,000 tons.

No spinal mounts unless they're already in 2300 AD canon.

More as I think about it.

 

[Colin]

2300AD is definitely a small ships universe. 10,000 tons is the upper end for pretty anything other than stations, with most vessels galling well under 5,000 tons. The Kennedy-class missile cruiser is maybe 1200 tons, or less.

Interface vehicles are reaction drives, but anything can mount a stutterwarp. Time to dust off my old missle design rules and gun up some missiles and drones. Start from the bottom...

 

[kristof65]

I'm not real knowledgable on 2300AD, but something to consider:

In Traveller, I very much prefer the % based drive systems like the original High Guard, T:NE FF&S, etc. However, in 2300AD, it might make a lot of sense to go with only standard size, "off-the-shelf" stutterwarp drives, especially for non-military ships

If stutterwarp technology is one of those things that's highly controlled because possession of it affects power, then sealed black box type stutterwarp units make more sense.

OTOH, if the 2300AD universe doesn't support that theory, then I'd say go with a % based system.

 

[rust]

Hmmm ... I could well imagine a universe where there are some standard
models of cheaper "off the shelve" drives (especially for smaller ships) as
well as more expensive "made to order" drives (especially for the bigger
ships), but if a choice had to be made I would prefer the percentile system.

 

[AndrewW]

2300AD is definitely a small ships universe. 10,000 tons is the upper end for pretty anything other than stations, with most vessels galling well under 5,000 tons. The Kennedy-class missile cruiser is maybe 1200 tons, or less.

Going to consider stations as well in the design rules?

 

[kristof65]

Something that would be interesting, but probably well outside the scope of a core rulebook, would be to have multiple "standard" drive lists/tables by manufacturer/source, with each manufacturer having slightly different benefits/stats at each level.

Kind of a correlation to someone handbuilding a car today - depending on the type of car someone's building, they may go for dropping in a Chevy V8, or a Honda 4 cylinder.

 

[Colin]

The original design system for 2300AD had fixed stutterwarp drives, based on power consumption, at three different tech levels. The system in Fire, Fusion, and Steel used a formula, though with similar results. Part of the problem is that fractional warp values were common in 2300AD, with some below 1. So the Kennedy had a warp value of 4.624 (or something) light years a day, while a fully-loaded Metal freighter had a warp vlaue of 0.4253 (or something). I want to recreate that flavour for Mongoose 2300.

 

[AndrewW]

The original design system for 2300AD had fixed stutterwarp drives, based on power consumption, at three different tech levels. The system in Fire, Fusion, and Steel used a formula, though with similar results. Part of the problem is that fractional warp values were common in 2300AD, with some below 1. So the Kennedy had a warp value of 4.624 (or something) light years a day, while a fully-loaded Metal freighter had a warp vlaue of 0.4253 (or something). I want to recreate that flavour for Mongoose 2300.

Since you mention fully-loaded, does the speed vary by current weight or just whatever the vessel is designed to carry as the factor, not being any faster if unloaded?

 

[rust]

Since you mention fully-loaded, does the speed vary by current weight or just whatever the vessel is designed to carry as the factor, not being any faster if unloaded?

It should not be too difficult to give stats for empty and fully loaded for
each ship design, and an optional formula to calculate the values in be-
tween from drive capacity and ship's mass for those who want that ad-
ded detail - in fact, this would just be the formula used to calculate the
warp speeds of all the designs in the first place ?

 

[Colin]

Since you mention fully-loaded, does the speed vary by current weight or just whatever the vessel is designed to carry as the factor, not being any faster if unloaded?

We'll use a cheat, like I used in 2320. Unloaded "weight" means the displacement of the ship minus tonnage set aside for fuel and cargo. Loaded is the "full" "weight" of the ship.

 

[Colin]

2300AD is definitely a small ships universe. 10,000 tons is the upper end for pretty anything other than stations, with most vessels galling well under 5,000 tons. The Kennedy-class missile cruiser is maybe 1200 tons, or less.

Going to consider stations as well in the design rules?

Yes. I hope to include standard modules and connectors for "workshack" style stations, and fittings for large stations as well. I would really like it if there was only one set of design rules for 2300AD, not uh, (counts on fingers...) what, 5? (Core, High Guard, Scouts, Agent, Merchant...)

 

[AndrewW]

Since you mention fully-loaded, does the speed vary by current weight or just whatever the vessel is designed to carry as the factor, not being any faster if unloaded?

We'll use a cheat, like I used in 2320. Unloaded "weight" means the displacement of the ship minus tonnage set aside for fuel and cargo. Loaded is the "full" "weight" of the ship.

Hmmm, maybe with fuel included but not cargo? Going to need the fuel but ship may run without cargo to go pick some up for example.

 

[AndrewW]

2300AD is definitely a small ships universe. 10,000 tons is the upper end for pretty anything other than stations, with most vessels galling well under 5,000 tons. The Kennedy-class missile cruiser is maybe 1200 tons, or less.

Going to consider stations as well in the design rules?

Yes. I hope to include standard modules and connectors for "workshack" style stations, and fittings for large stations as well. I would really like it if there was only one set of design rules for 2300AD, not uh, (counts on fingers...) what, 5? (Core, High Guard, Scouts, Agent, Merchant...)

Well, for ships: High Guard for Small Craft 1-100 tons, Core Rulebook for 100-2,000 tons, High Guard for Capital Ships 2,001 - 1,000,000.

I agree, one set of design rules that can cover the full range would be better.

 

[Colin]

But there are advanced sensors in Scouts, spy-stuff in Agent, merchant-y stuff in Merchant Prince...
I also plan to set size, tech, weapon limits. No 100,000 ton super battleships, please.

 

[Colin]

Since you mention fully-loaded, does the speed vary by current weight or just whatever the vessel is designed to carry as the factor, not being any faster if unloaded?

We'll use a cheat, like I used in 2320. Unloaded "weight" means the displacement of the ship minus tonnage set aside for fuel and cargo. Loaded is the "full" "weight" of the ship.

Hmmm, maybe with fuel included but not cargo? Going to need the fuel but ship may run without cargo to go pick some up for example.

It's unloaded weight, maximum speed. Might give three sets: Dry Performance, Empty Performance (no cargo) and fully loaded. The stutterwarp math is a pain in the butt, so I want to provide as much information as possible.

 

[Ishmael]

Would having 'surface area' help to limit ship sizes without resorting to artificial rules?

Volume goes up way faster than surface area and if weapon placement is limited to surface area ( also competing with other area using things like engine exhausts and sensor arrays and radiators and airlocks and etc etc etc) then warships will quickly reach a point where going larger will net diminishing returns...especially when structure and mass go up as volume goes up and performance goes down ( please mass based performance! )
oh yeah..nevermind.... I was thinking of realistic reaction thrusters
stutterwarp is inertia-less isn't it?