2300AD - A suggestion

[Bryn the 2300AD guy]

Allow me to quote MWM from Challenge 27:

Traveller: 2300 is GDW's new science fiction role-playing game, but the conceptualization, design, and development of the game has taken more than a year. During that time, the GDW staff working on the project has thought and rethought just about every possible approach to a high quality science fiction game and sought out the best possible approach.

From a design standpoint, I adopted a guiding phrase early in the process- playable realism. My aim was to produce a game that had the utmost in realism, but was also totally playable. Realistic games that aren't playable tend to sit on the shelf; playable games that aren't realistic are unsatisfying. I made it a goal for Traveller: 2300 that it would be both. One of the central concepts in the philosophy of playable realism was the concept of tasks.

[Skip half a page on the task system]

OTHER PARTS OF TRAVELLER: 2300
Task resolution is not the only part of Traveller: 2300 that we spent a lot of time on. Frank Chadwick produced an excellent personal combat system, and he wasn't above making the great movie tricks (such as leaping attacks and wrestling holds) part of the action. The GDW staff simulated the course of history from 2000 to 2300, creating a totally plausible, consistent future which reflects developments of technology, and centuries-old power struggles. Tim Brown crafted a space combat system that plays well and also reflects realistic future battle systems. I built on my Traveller researches to develop a realistic system that creates star systems with a minimum of effort.

Next Month: The Traveller: 2300 star map- the most accurate star map ever produced for a game.

THE RELATIONSHIP OF TRAVELLER: 2300 TO TRAVELLER
The common name for Traveller: 2300 and Traveller leaves some room for confusion, and it helps to clear that sort of thing up early. Frankly, I consider Traveller one of the best games ever designed. To quote a recent review, it "set the standard for science fiction games." Traveller: 2300 is not advanced Traveller; it is a completely different game. The similarity of names is due to the continuing dominant theme in each game: players are travellers to the stars. Traveller: 2300 is not intended as a direct replacement for Traveller. They have different backgrounds, different approaches, different rules. Traveller is going to be around for a long time, and we will continue to support it. Traveller: 2300 is an alternative game system that incorporates new game technology and a different approach to background. The two game systems can co-exist and will for years to come.
-Marc W. Miller

 

[MasterGwydion]

2300 seemed to be a big, missed opportunity to do the Interstellar Wars Milieu.

 

[boggo2300]

Allow me to quote MWM from Challenge 27:

Traveller: 2300 is GDW's new science fiction role-playing game, but the conceptualization, design, and development of the game has taken more than a year. During that time, the GDW staff working on the project has thought and rethought just about every possible approach to a high quality science fiction game and sought out the best possible approach.

From a design standpoint, I adopted a guiding phrase early in the process- playable realism. My aim was to produce a game that had the utmost in realism, but was also totally playable. Realistic games that aren't playable tend to sit on the shelf; playable games that aren't realistic are unsatisfying. I made it a goal for Traveller: 2300 that it would be both. One of the central concepts in the philosophy of playable realism was the concept of tasks.

[Skip half a page on the task system]

OTHER PARTS OF TRAVELLER: 2300
Task resolution is not the only part of Traveller: 2300 that we spent a lot of time on. Frank Chadwick produced an excellent personal combat system, and he wasn't above making the great movie tricks (such as leaping attacks and wrestling holds) part of the action. The GDW staff simulated the course of history from 2000 to 2300, creating a totally plausible, consistent future which reflects developments of technology, and centuries-old power struggles. Tim Brown crafted a space combat system that plays well and also reflects realistic future battle systems. I built on my Traveller researches to develop a realistic system that creates star systems with a minimum of effort.

Next Month: The Traveller: 2300 star map- the most accurate star map ever produced for a game.

THE RELATIONSHIP OF TRAVELLER: 2300 TO TRAVELLER
The common name for Traveller: 2300 and Traveller leaves some room for confusion, and it helps to clear that sort of thing up early. Frankly, I consider Traveller one of the best games ever designed. To quote a recent review, it "set the standard for science fiction games." Traveller: 2300 is not advanced Traveller; it is a completely different game. The similarity of names is due to the continuing dominant theme in each game: players are travellers to the stars. Traveller: 2300 is not intended as a direct replacement for Traveller. They have different backgrounds, different approaches, different rules. Traveller is going to be around for a long time, and we will continue to support it. Traveller: 2300 is an alternative game system that incorporates new game technology and a different approach to background. The two game systems can co-exist and will for years to come.
-Marc W. Miller

That's what I was trying to say, but worded so much better

 

[Azgulor]

That was then. This is now. 2300AD is now a Traveller game. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have bought it, despite higher interest in the setting than the Third Imperium. I don't care what the original form of 2300AD was while I'm playing 2300AD using Traveller rules today any more than I care about original D&D if I'm playing, say, an OSR game built on a B/X engine. I can appreciate what came before, but if that was what I wanted to play, that would be the edition of the game I'd be playing. I'm all for improving the game and full confidence Mongoose will do so. But quibbling over whether or not the current incarnation of 2300AD is Traveller - when it obviously is, is pointless.

 

[boggo2300]

That was then. This is now. 2300AD is now a Traveller game. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have bought it, despite higher interest in the setting than the Third Imperium. I don't care what the original form of 2300AD was while I'm playing 2300AD using Traveller rules today any more than I care about original D&D if I'm playing, say, an OSR game built on a B/X engine. I can appreciate what came before, but if that was what I wanted to play, that would be the edition of the game I'd be playing. I'm all for improving the game and full confidence Mongoose will do so. But quibbling over whether or not the current incarnation of 2300AD is Traveller - when it obviously is, is pointless.

well I have no interest in playing a bastardised 2300 with poorly fitting traveller mechanics, so I will never buy it as it stands at the moment, and I know I'm not alone. But no-one is quibling over it currently using Traveller rules, we are saying it sucks that it uses Traveller rules. (not wanting to speak for anyone else I will change that to I am saying)

 

[MasterGwydion]

I won't play it just because it is not the setting I want. If I want to play something around the year 2300, I play the Interstellar Wars period of Charted Space. Since Traveller now owns 2300, I doubt we will ever see an Interstellar Wars Mileu since that would be too similar to 2300AD and that is a real shame.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The Expanse.
GURPS Transhumans Space
GURPS Terradyne

All can be run with the Traveller rule set.

They are all near future settings much like T2300AD

 

[Bryn the 2300AD guy]

GDW wrote what became 2300AD, which was originally called "Overlord" with the intent to use the most advanced mechanics available (task system etc.) in a very realistic setting. This led to some pretty deadly combat. This combat was criticised by some for being too deadly, but was still much less deadly than reality.*

Anyway, I digress. The point being that in an effort to ramp up realism, they used a relatively recognisable world, with countries etc. people recognised. They also decided to knock America down from being a major power to a regional one, which led to large swathes of the fanbase and even writers trying to buff America. They deliberately didn't want to use the Traveller universe. I guess the change from "Overlord" to "Traveller:2300" was an attempt to draw in Traveller fans to buy the new product.

Now, the mechanics, lets call them the "Overlord Engine," stand up as an excellent engine in their own right. I thought it was one of the best GDW produced.


* For example, using the getting hit with a FAM-90 gauss rifle at typical combat range without armour (DPV = 2, rounded up from 1.2) was instantly lethal with a head or chest (upper torso) hit (20% of hits), would inflict a serious wound and 2 shock points if hitting the lower torso (20%, also with a -3 initiative penalty)), but only a light wound if hitting a limb (60%) with a knockdown and -1 initiative penalty. The gutshot would progress due to shock mechanics (i.e. bleeding out) but typically would not progress to killing.

In the 1988 an additional optional rule allowed for a second roll (d10) for potential wound type based on location:

Head: 1-6 = kill, 7-8 = serious wound, 9-10 = light wound
Chest: 1-4 = kill, 5-6 = serious wound, 7-10 = light wound
Abdomen: 1-3 = kill, 4-5 = serious wound, 6-10 = light wound
Upper leg: 1-2 = kill, 3-4 = serious wound, 5-10 = light wound
Lower leg or arm: 1 = kill, 2-3 = serious wound, 4-10 = light wound

This was pretty good, and far better than Traveller's knocking down stats and to hit modifiers based on armour/weapon combinations. I found it much more intuitive.

 

[boggo2300]

GDW wrote what became 2300AD, which was originally called "Overlord" with the intent to use the most advanced mechanics available (task system etc.) in a very realistic setting. This led to some pretty deadly combat. This combat was criticised by some for being too deadly, but was still much less deadly than reality.*

Anyway, I digress. The point being that in an effort to ramp up realism, they used a relatively recognisable world, with countries etc. people recognised. They also decided to knock America down from being a major power to a regional one, which led to large swathes of the fanbase and even writers trying to buff America. They deliberately didn't want to use the Traveller universe. I guess the change from "Overlord" to "Traveller:2300" was an attempt to draw in Traveller fans to buy the new product.

Now, the mechanics, lets call them the "Overlord Engine," stand up as an excellent engine in their own right. I thought it was one of the best GDW produced.


* For example, using the getting hit with a FAM-90 gauss rifle at typical combat range without armour (DPV = 2, rounded up from 1.2) was instantly lethal with a head or chest (upper torso) hit (20% of hits), would inflict a serious wound and 2 shock points if hitting the lower torso (20%, also with a -3 initiative penalty)), but only a light wound if hitting a limb (60%) with a knockdown and -1 initiative penalty. The gutshot would progress due to shock mechanics (i.e. bleeding out) but typically would not progress to killing.

In the 1988 an additional optional rule allowed for a second roll (d10) for potential wound type based on location:

Head: 1-6 = kill, 7-8 = serious wound, 9-10 = light wound
Chest: 1-4 = kill, 5-6 = serious wound, 7-10 = light wound
Abdomen: 1-3 = kill, 4-5 = serious wound, 6-10 = light wound
Upper leg: 1-2 = kill, 3-4 = serious wound, 5-10 = light wound
Lower leg or arm: 1 = kill, 2-3 = serious wound, 4-10 = light wound

This was pretty good, and far better than Traveller's knocking down stats and to hit modifiers based on armour/weapon combinations. I found it much more intuitive.

Gotta say I preferred personal combat in 2300 even above Twilight. I honestly think the lethality of combat was a big part of what made the game what it was.

 

[MasterGwydion]

GDW wrote what became 2300AD, which was originally called "Overlord" with the intent to use the most advanced mechanics available (task system etc.) in a very realistic setting. This led to some pretty deadly combat. This combat was criticised by some for being too deadly, but was still much less deadly than reality.*

Anyway, I digress. The point being that in an effort to ramp up realism, they used a relatively recognisable world, with countries etc. people recognised. They also decided to knock America down from being a major power to a regional one, which led to large swathes of the fanbase and even writers trying to buff America. They deliberately didn't want to use the Traveller universe. I guess the change from "Overlord" to "Traveller:2300" was an attempt to draw in Traveller fans to buy the new product.

Now I know why that company failed. Let's make a game almost identical to the Traveller Interstellar Wars-period, but specifically avoid making it a Traveller Charted Space game, then change the name to Traveller to attract the buyers of the very game they didn't want to be like? Wow!