2 Random thoughts on combat

[Shonuff]

First - let me say these are just random thoughts on combat. I've had no time to research it, playtest it, or anything. They are just those sudden "what if" questions that you wonder if you should even post (thinking you may have missed something obvious).

1. After reading some complaints regarding DR making some weapons useless (or resulting in less than satisfying battles against heavily armored knights), I was just wondering:

What if DR simply halved damage (min dmg of 1) instead of soaking it completely? What if an Armor Piercing attack (one that would normally result in half-damage) ignored the armor?

Do you believe this would nerf finesse attacks by giving strong characters too much of an advantage? (It was actually ignoring the armor through a finesse attack that caused the thought of a successful armor piercing attack doing the same - ignoring the DR by piercing/bashing hard enough to cancel its protection.)

Would it make a game a little more gritty or would it ruin the rules as they are?

I'm thinking more about game mechanics and theory than physics facts. The rules-related thought being that high damage attacks will wear you down, this speeding up combat a little faster than the minimum 1 damage rule.

Hummm - what if attacks that failed to pierce the armor (following the thought above) did non-lethal half damage instead of regular damage? -or- is regular damage better?

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2. What if a successful feint halved the Dodge/Parry bonuses of your enemy (rounding down) instead of causing a loss of stats bonuses to DV?

(In the name of sweet courtesy I ask that we please not start another feint/sneak attack debate. I'm just thinking of a way to maybe make the maneuver a little better in relation the the official rulings we received. This same idea would be for any D20/OGL game (Star Wars, Spycraft, etc.) that used a class defense bonus of somekind and included the feint in their rules.)

Would halving the Defense Bonuses be too much of an advantage?

It is late here and I may have lost my mind but I am just interested to know your thoughts on these two random ideas.

Thanks

 

[Yokiboy]

2. What if a successful feint halved the Dodge/Parry bonuses of your enemy (rounding down) instead of causing a loss of stats bonuses to DV?

Hi Shonuff, I think this would slow down the game due to the resulting math. I mean, how many NPCs have you actually created fully, so you have their BDB and BPB readily avaiable? If you, unlike myself, has this information readily available, or can do the math quickly enough, then go ahead, try it out.

On the official ruling, I find it interesting that you lose your base instincts, as modelled by the abilities, but not your learned reactions, as modelled by the BDB and BPB.

TTFN,

Yokiboy

 

[Murte]

IN regards to your first question let's relate it in some modern day terms:

Should a fella with a 9mm be able to damage a M1A1 Abrams? After all that is the comparision to a stone dagger vs. plate armour.

With the different combat styles and of course critical hits, combat goes by fast enough. With few exceptions strong characters always only wory about 1/2 DR anyway. The dex based fighters have more to worry about, since a simple Leather Jerkin is a 20% penalty to hit in order to finesse. (1st lvl mook with a AV of 12 has a AV of 16 vs. finesse w/ LJ)

High level combat in Conan is actually a lil quicker then in 3.5, even with "ghost hp" from DR the damage output is greater, especially with combat styles. Yes, it does take longer to wade through 10 mooks since there is no Fireball, but melee ends up being shorter.

 

[Mongoose Bob]

In connection to the first question, I have one that came up recently here.

Is the Armour Piercing part of the rules too complicated or OK?

In summary; when struck by a weapon you add the Str Mod to AP (if allowed) and get tha AP score. This is then compare to the DR of the armour, if it exceeds it then half the DR for that blow.

Is this working OK for everone? (sorry to hijack the thread but it fits here also)

For your questions, my opinion only;
1, interesting not really thought of this, we quite like this current system though. Interested to hear opinions though.

2, not keen on halving it. Could not find any good reason for this, though I did think about it.

 

[Shonuff]

Hi Shonuff, I think this would slow down the game due to the resulting math. I mean, how many NPCs have you actually created fully, so you have their BDB and BPB readily avaiable? If you, unlike myself, has this information readily available, or can do the math quickly enough, then go ahead, try it out.

Actually, I was thinking of a total halving of Defense Bonuses (including stat mods) but I see I did not quite clarify that in my description.

For example, Base dodge of X plus dex mod (and feats, etc) of Y totals Z. A successful feint would make your DV as follows: 10+half of Z (rather than 10+Z).

It might not work well, but it was just a thought to improve the maneuver (by causing a penalty to both natural ability and trained skill).

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You're right Murte. The thoughts on armor are not realistic, but just ideas to speed things up. My play-by-post game doesn't allow me the experience of quick table-top combats so I'm looking at it from a slightly different point of view. Good point about the higher damage rates in Conan.

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Shonuff]

In connection to the first question, I have one that came up recently here.

Is the Armour Piercing part of the rules too complicated or OK?

Please feel free to hijack my thread anyday . It is great to hear from the RulesMaster.

I actually believed them to be a neat addition and really had no complaints about the calculations involved. It takes a little longer, but I did not consider it too complicated.

My thought here was just a brainstorm in response to those that posted their game experiences and were discussing the minimum 1 point damage rule in relation to high DR. I was just trying to think of a way to allow a strong Pict with a hatchet to batter an armored knight a little harder than a weak grandma with a stone dagger. It was nothing more than a passing thought and not a criticism of the current rules.

2, not keen on halving it. Could not find any good reason for this, though I did think about it.

I understand. Thinking more on it, it might be too much of a penalty for higher level characters. Why should they suffer even more than the less experienced?

I wonder if a standard penalty could be the result of a successful feint maneuver? Successful feint = a -4 (or some number higher/lower) to DV for the next attack. The Improved Feint feat speeds this up, but I wonder if it might also slightly increase the penalty?

Just another thought in response to those saying Feinting was useless against those that had no stat bonuses to Defense.

 

[Saeros]

My group just had a discussion on this last night. The rules do seem a little complicated. We decided to keep playing with them and maybe we will get the hang of it soon.

I think that I am going to make markers, maybe with cheap poker chips. One side will say full DR and the other 1/2 DR. Then the players can keep track of their opponents and what they need to subtract from their damage rolls.

We use the minimum of one point of damage rule extensively, as the party is low level and gets hit a lot. Armor is the only thing that is saving them, and they do not have much of it to begin with. Last night everyone in the party was 0 hit pointed or lower at one point or another.

Saeros

 

[VincentDarlage]

Is the Armour Piercing part of the rules too complicated or OK?

It's okay and fun by me.

 

[sanseveria]

I have no problem with it either.

SS

 

[Shonuff]

In connection to the first question, I have one that came up recently here.

Is the Armour Piercing part of the rules too complicated or OK?

In summary; when struck by a weapon you add the Str Mod to AP (if allowed) and get tha AP score. This is then compare to the DR of the armour, if it exceeds it then half the DR for that blow.

Is this working OK for everone? (sorry to hijack the thread but it fits here also)

It seems like most of us like the AP rules as printed.
-However-
Was there an alternate system you tried or were thinking about testing?
Or were you just thinking about removing them if the feedback was not positive?

Curious minds want to know :wink: