1st Post and a question on base size

[Pavlov Grenadier]

Hi all! As this is my first post, I will take a moment and introduct myself. Our group plays in Atlanta, GA and have been playing wargames for about 10 years together. We play mainly tabletop minuature games ranging from Anceints, Napoleonics, WW2 (all in 15mm) as well as serveral Sci-Fi Games like Epic and some 40k.

The only space combat game we have played is Battlefleet Gothic so recently we started testing the waters to see what else is out there. This of course brought us to ACTA. I purchased the revised box set (only to find out that a new edition is comeing out soon...doh! ) and have read the rules. The system seems fairly straight foward but I do have several questions. I will only post one here so I can keep them as seperate threads

1) Do base sizes mean anythging? I notice some ships with small and large and wonder if thats just for stability purposes. From my reading, you always measure from the stem...right?

Thanks!

 

[Valen is my name]

first of all welcome to ACtA. In answer to your question, everything is measured from the middle of the model, so it does not matter how big, or for some of the larger models, how many bases you have.

 

[Pavlov Grenadier]

Thanks for the quick response Valen!

 

[Greg Smith]

The only rule concerning with bases, is that you can't overlap.

Welcome to the boards.

 

[Davesaint]

Must...resist..... starting....old argument.......(use shattner type cadence)



Dave

 

[Shadow Queen]

first of all welcome to ACtA. In answer to your question, everything is measured from the middle of the model, so it does not matter how big, or for some of the larger models, how many bases you have.

But with many bases you must declear what one you are gonna mesure from

 

[Davesaint]

first of all welcome to ACtA. In answer to your question, everything is measured from the middle of the model, so it does not matter how big, or for some of the larger models, how many bases you have.

But with many bases you must declear what one you are gonna mesure from

You don't measure from the base, you measure from the post.


Dave

 

[Valen is my name]

first of all welcome to ACtA. In answer to your question, everything is measured from the middle of the model, so it does not matter how big, or for some of the larger models, how many bases you have.

But with many bases you must declear what one you are gonna mesure from

i thought you measured from the middle of the model itself, so for the poseidon you find the spot in the middle of it. i'm sure there was a discussion about this a while back, and it was agreed that its the middle of the model, not the stem.

 

[Davesaint]

first of all welcome to ACtA. In answer to your question, everything is measured from the middle of the model, so it does not matter how big, or for some of the larger models, how many bases you have.

But with many bases you must declear what one you are gonna mesure from

i thought you measured from the middle of the model itself, so for the poseidon you find the spot in the middle of it. i'm sure there was a discussion about this a while back, and it was agreed that its the middle of the model, not the stem.

For most models, the middle of the model is where the post is placed on the base. However there are some exceptions, such as figures made by AOG that had 2 1 inch hex bases. I think the posideon uses 2 bases due to the size of the model. Thus people where using the middle of the model. I know that VAS measures from the middle of the model.


Dave

 

[prelude_to_war]

Must...resist..... starting....old argument.......(use shattner type cadence)
Dave

? What difference does base size make?

I kid.

Using middle of the model isn't exact. What I perceive to be the middle may not be what you think it is, especially in the heat of battle with dice flying everywhere and ships exploding - particularly when it comes to boresites. I suppose you could declare it i.e. 'the middle of this Poseidon is the third square shape next to the second circle on the right' - but why bother with these complexities?

Using the stem avoids any ambiguity. In the case of a dual-stemmed mini (like my Omegas), declare one stem as _the_ stem.

 

[Ripple]

For the record, the only big deal is about bases sizes is the no overlapping rule. This does have an impact on some races/ships ability to get boresights. So if your basing boresighted ships go as small as stability allows. It helps reduce the issue of your own ships getting in the way of critical angle shots.

Ripple

 

[CZuschlag]

Not just that, Ripple --- some races that have a great deal of extremely short-range punch on big bases (Targrath, T'Loth, Bimith, Milani, Vorchan, Maximus, Tigara) can run out of physical real estate quickly, espeicially when trying to line up a CAF (Tigaras and Targraths, especially) or trying to Close Blast Doors (T'Loth, Milani, Bimith). It's much better to have small bases on those occasions.

 

[Pavlov Grenadier]

Not just that, Ripple --- some races that have a great deal of extremely short-range punch on big bases (Targrath, T'Loth, Bimith, Milani, Vorchan, Maximus, Tigara) can run out of physical real estate quickly, espeicially when trying to line up a CAF (Tigaras and Targraths, especially) or trying to Close Blast Doors (T'Loth, Milani, Bimith). It's much better to have small bases on those occasions.

Hmmm...thats interesting. So I can choose what size base to put my ships on? And from what I am reading, I would want them on as small a base as possible for space constraint reasons. Is that going to be the same way in 2e? Having only played one game here, the following should be taken with a grain of salt, but it seems to me that if the base size has any effect on the game (like cant overlap...bad for short range guns since you cant overlap, etc.), they should be "dictated" by the designer. Otherwise, why wouldnt I put all my ships on really small bases? Heck, I could use washers or something to give it stablity.

Again, I havent been playing long but I have played enough other games that I know how certain players can be (every advantage at any cost...even if your ships look silly sitting on a 1" round metal dowel so they have a smaller footprint).

But then again, maybe its not that big of deal...any insight would be helpful as we have not purchased any ships yet and I would like to report back to the group on how we should proceed.

Thanks!!

 

[Ripple]

It depends on how competitive your group is, highly competitive groups can get niggly about the angles/inches. Our group vacillates between really measuring the inches and 'intention' announcements being fine.

The absolute skinny is that small bases are an advantage. If you have a choice go small. What is up for debate is how much this matters. In long range and 'running' fights the advantage IS small, but if you are in the middle of the mix like CZ talk about above or if you depend on catching just the right angle and want to work the edges of an arc to make the most of maneuver, well it can be critical.

I tend to agree that it should be dictated by the designer, but there were two scales of the game in circulation as a legacy of the previous holder of the license. The decided that to make both scales usable in the same game basing thing off the stem would make it fair. This works to a limited degree but as we have found in many of our test fights, the man with smaller base is more maneuverable and gets more secondary and/or short ranged guns in arc.

Ripple

 

[Burger]

My Drazi are certainly a lot easier to play on small bases. For a fleet designed to have lots of small ships, putting them on the supplied large ones really hampers them. Try getting 6 ships to boresight a target when they can't even get within 3" of each other due to bases...

 

[Ripple]

Yup...

Hate to post so much in a single thread...but this was a crusade of mine a while back. Many in the old guard repeatedly told us new comers they didn't know what we were smoking, so it got kind of tense. We dropped it, as Mongoose was clear in their support of the stem only stance and all the rancor was strickly for our own enjoyment.

But...

I still want to warn folks new to the game not to hamper their Drazi (or Hyperions or Dilgar) with large bases that will only hurt their enjoyment of the game.

Ripple