1st ed. CRB/MRB Crew Stewards

[snrdg121408]

Hello all,

Unfortunately, I was snoozing when the Beta testing version for the new Core Rulebook and High Guard were available which has left me learning the Spacecraft Design, Spacecraft Options, Small Craft Design, and the Capital Ship Design rules from the 1st edition.

I would appreciate all the help I can get to make sure that my understanding of the 1st ed. rules is not out in left field somewhere.

Back to the topic CRB 1st ed./MRB Crew Requirement for Stewards.

Here is what I think CRB 1st ed./MRB p. 113 Crew Requirements Table and Spacecraft Operations Passage p. 142 mean when determining the number of crew members needed based on the Steward skill level.

From p. 113: One steward skill per two high or five middle passengers.

A ship is carrying two high and five middle passengers. From the rule on p. 113 I think I would need two characters with Steward skills regardless of their skill level. One character would be looking out for the two high passengers and the other character for the five middle passengers regardless of what their skill levels.

Do I have a basic understanding of the Steward requirement for p. 113?

The Crew Requirements Table on p. 113 refers to p. 142

From p. 142 Passage:
High Passage: Each level of the Steward Skill (including level 0) allows the steward to effectively look after two high passage passengers onboard a ship (so a character with Steward 2 could care for six passengers).

Middle Passage: Each level of the Steward Skill (including level 0) allows the steward to effectively look after five middle passage passengers.

Using the original example and the rules from p. 142 I still think that two characters with Steward skill are still needed one for the high passengers and the other for the middle passengers. The difference is that the higher the skill level the more high or middle passage passengers the character can look out for.

A character with Steward 2, per the high and middle passage rules on p. 142 and p. 113, could look out for 12 high passage passengers or 10 middle passage passengers. If the ship carried 12 high and 10 middle I would need two characters with Steward 2.

Yes, I know that there are other combinations Steward Skill levels that could be used to cover the Steward to High/Middle Passage requirements, I'm trying to keep things simple at this stage.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I'm a huge fan of over and under worked stewards.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello ShawnDriscoll,

I'm a huge fan of over and under worked stewards.

In my opinion most Traveller crew rules allow for over and under worked crew positions. In CT LBB 2 all designs require at least one pilot. LBB 5 there is no pilot requirement indicated, however I learned that they are supposedly lumped in with Command Section or possibly the Service Crew Section, MgT HG also, in my opinion, follows the same path. CT Trillion Credit Squadron has optional Pilot allowance rules similar to MgT CRB 1st. ed./MRB Pilot requirements, the difference is that MgT specifically mentions back-up pilots.

I do realize that the rules are guidelines that similar to real life, may or may not be followed. Not following the guidelines, coupled with bad die rolls, have a better chance of causing bad events than following them. In my case a majority of the time the best course is to have some other character in the hot seat, better yet have my character on point with ample space between the character and the rest of the party. Of course I seem to do a bit better in solo situations.

I did a quick check in CRB 2nd ed. and I'll have to wait for the release of new HG to figure out how the rules work out for any of the crew. Not having a copy of HG Beta to figure out CRB 2nd. ed. is a real pain in the neck for me.

Unfortunately, I am still wondering if I have a basic understanding of the 1st ed. Steward rules or am I out to lunch.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The rules are not completely exact.

I would say that "Stewards" is one single crew section needing X skill levels (including level-0), where X = ( High/2 + Mid/5 - Luxuries[p110] ), rounded up. A single highly skilled individual, or several less skilled individuals can cover this, with enough Luxuries you don't need any crew at all. You might even use robots [p95] instead of actual crew, if you allow that kind of thing...

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello AnotherDilbert,

The rules are not completely exact.

I would say that "Stewards" is one single crew section needing X skill levels (including level-0), where X = ( High/2 + Mid/5 - Luxuries[p110] ), rounded up. A single highly skilled individual, or several less skilled individuals can cover this, with enough Luxuries you don't need any crew at all. You might even use robots [p95] instead of actual crew, if you allow that kind of thing...

Thank you for reminding me about the luxuries Steward skill modifier rule, I admit to have lumped the rule in with the other combinations for the number of characters that need to have Steward skills. I consider the robot as filling a position of Steward as an NPC unless of course the robot was a player's character.

If I am understand the reply one PC or NPC can take care of both high and middle passengers at the same time.

That seems to be at odds with the operative word "or" in the Average or Full Steward requirement. I may be wrong but my impression is that the PC or NPC takes care of either high or middle class passengers not both at the same time. The more skilled the PC or NPC is the more of each group they can effectively look after separately but not at the same time.

Okay, I am still lost in the woods which means I am probably over thinking the rules and in need of mental health counseling or made someone rapping me on the head with a big sledge hammer.

Thank you for the help and my apologies at being thick in the head.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I think you are overthinking it a little. I'm prone to do that too.

The rules are not written by mathematicians, but role players. Think of them as rough guidelines. You can have too little crew, but that invites the Referee to become creative... If you have too few stewards the passengers complain, you get bad online reviews and a bad rep. Or the passengers might get food poisoning mid jump, vomiting all over the place. Or you get to a High Law planet and are punished for not fulfilling Health & Safety or Sophont Labour Protection regulations.

If you want to be a luxury liner you want more stewards, perhaps much more "stewards" (entertainers, croupiers, personal trainers...), but the Referee might allow you to charge higher prices.

 

[Condottiere]

Luxury would cover a multitude of sins and capabilities, including predicting what any particular passenger may request or need, so the Steward has the item or service in hand, perhaps even before the passenger knew he wanted or needed it.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello AnotherDilbert and Condottiere,

Thank you both for the recent replies and my apology for the slow response. I have almost completed, the almost is because of crew requirements, my spreadsheet rough draft for the CRB 1st ed./MRB Spacecraft Design rules. The stewards are the only, oops I missed including gunners for the turrets, bays, and screens. Correction: Calculating the recommended number of PCs or NPCs with Steward skill and Gunners recommended for turrets, bays, or screen operators are still in progress.

Here is another go at getting a handle the Steward crew requirements with, I hope anyway, my clearly described understanding of the rules on pp. 110, 113, and 142.

1. The Crew Requirements on CRB 1st ed./MRB are the recommended minimum needed for ships >= 100 tons to, in theory, operate safely.

2. The number of recommended PCs and/or NPCs, without the use of the Luxuries option, is based on their Steward skill level.

Here is where I am apparently heading off in the wrong direction.
3. The listed Average and Full Steward Crew Requirement is based on at least one PC and/or NPC with a skill of Steward 0. A PC and/or NPC with a skill of Steward 0 can adequately care for two high class passengers or five middle class passengers.

Can a single PC and/or NPC care adequately for a total seven passengers consisting of two high class passengers and five middle class passengers?

My take is that two PCs and/or NPCs would be needed if both high and middle class passengers are being carried on the same voyage.

4. The higher one PC's and/or NPC's Steward skills the more high or middle class passengers the character can take care of during the voyage.

5. According to the Luxuries Option on p. 110 each ton of luxury equals one level of Steward skill which would allow a ship to carry high and middle class passengers without carrying a PC or NPC with a Steward skill.

Hopefully either or both of you or perhaps another forum member will be able to figure out my issue and get the candle of understanding for the stewards illuminated for me.

Off-topic
Unfortunately, I have to report, even with the recommended crew not being complete, my attempt a verifying the CRB 1st ed./MBR Scout and Seeker on p. 115 does not match the Maintenance Cost (monthly) and Total Cost. For the Scout I calculated using the listed air/raft cost on the datasheet and the cost per the Vehicles and Drones Table on p. 111. I have two copies of CRB 1st ed./MRB, one is the hardcover I purchased back in 2008 and the PDF version lasted updated by my downloads folder on or about 02/05/16. I am using the most recently updated PDF of CRB 1st ed./MRB.

I am not surprised that my final cost calculations do not match with those on the datasheets since this is the area I consistently come up with different numbers in the other Traveller design rules. The Costs for the installed items listed on the spreadsheet match those on the two ship datasheets. The only way I can see that my final cost is off is I am not using the sane discount percentage used for the Scout and Seeker on p. 115, even though p. 105 the discount is 10%.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Hopefully, a Referee here will have a definitive answer.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The rules are not completely exact.

I would say that "Stewards" is one single crew section needing X skill levels (including level-0), where X = ( High/2 + Mid/5 - Luxuries[p110] ), rounded up. A single highly skilled individual, or several less skilled individuals can cover this, with enough Luxuries you don't need any crew at all. You might even use robots [p95] instead of actual crew, if you allow that kind of thing...

But that is only my opinion.

The standard ships are never completely perfect, it's traditional! These designs have been standardised and optimised over centuries giving them an unfair advantage. All shipyards in the Imperium can mass produce them at reduced cost.
And if they are more expensive, well quality costs. Besides you can find spare parts cheaply everywhere you go in the Imperium!

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello ShawnDriscoll and AnotherDilbert,

Hopefully, a Referee here will have a definitive answer.

I have to agree even though AnotherDilbert has made a valiant attempt in trying to straighten me out.

The rules are not completely exact.

I would say that "Stewards" is one single crew section needing X skill levels (including level-0), where X = ( High/2 + Mid/5 - Luxuries[p110] ), rounded up. A single highly skilled individual, or several less skilled individuals can cover this, with enough Luxuries you don't need any crew at all. You might even use robots [p95] instead of actual crew, if you allow that kind of thing...

But that is only my opinion.

My original line of thinking resulted in a similar formula until about the tenth review of the rules on pp. 110, 113, and 142, then I realized I might be wrong that a single character with Steward skills could take care of both high passage and middle passage passengers at the same time. Thank you for your attempt in getting me on the right track.

The standard ships are never completely perfect, it's traditional! These designs have been standardised and optimised over centuries giving them an unfair advantage. All shipyards in the Imperium can mass produce them at reduced cost.
And if they are more expensive, well quality costs. Besides you can find spare parts cheaply everywhere you go in the Imperium!

I am thinking that this part of the reply concerns my off-topic comment of not being able to match the maintenance and final costs for the Scout and Seeker on p. 115. My method of figuring out a design system is to follow any examples showing how to use the rules. If there are no examples I try to use a published design to run through the rules hoping I'll get a match, so far my average is zero, mainly because of cost. On the bright side, knocking on wood, my tonnage and life support have matched, now I'm hoping at least those two areas will continue the trend for the rest of the hulls.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello all,

My solution for the recommended number of stewards is a minimum of two one for high passage and the other for middle passage passengers both must have at least a Steward 0 skill level, unless the luxury option tonnage is sufficient to eliminate the need for any crew with steward skills. In the spreadsheet I can adjust the skill level when calculating the recommended number and a manual entry box for the the number personnel that I want to fill the position.

In other words I am basically follow AnotherDilbert's suggestion of

I would say that "Stewards" is one single crew section needing X skill levels (including level-0), where X = ( High/2 + Mid/5 - Luxuries[p110] ), rounded up. A single highly skilled individual, or several less skilled individuals can cover this, with enough Luxuries you don't need any crew at all. You might even use robots [p95] instead of actual crew, if you allow that kind of thing...

.

The use of robots to fill any position depends, in my opinion, on where in the TU the scenario is located in. IIRC the Zhodani and Hivers make use of robots for just about every position. In the Imperium the use of robots is generally restricted, of course my guess is that the restrictions dribble away the further away from the core and the harsher the environment. I do not have even a vague idea about how the rest of TU relate to the use of robots.

Thank you for the help.

 

[Condottiere]

Passage prices could be recommended; you can set your own and increase the number of stewards.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello Condottiere,

Passage prices could be recommended; you can set your own and increase the number of stewards.

Being a lazy sort I'll stick with the prices shown on CRB 1st ed./MRB p. 142 or CRB 2nd ed. p. 207.

The number of stewards in MgT are a lot more complex than in CT. CT's requirement is 1 Steward per 8 high passage passengers while MgT uses Steward Skill levels in determining the recommended number of characters needed to take care of both high and middle passage passengers.

As far as I can tell one PC or NPC can have at least two skills which appears to mean that the individual could fill in two positions and meet the recommended crew levels. A PC or NPC with Pilot and Astronavigation skills I feel would me the minimum crew requirements. To meet the recommended number of stewards more than one of the crew could have as a secondary skill Steward and in theory meet or exceed the recommended number.

Thank you for the reply

 

[AnotherDilbert]

As far as I can tell one PC or NPC can have at least two skills which appears to mean that the individual could fill in two positions and meet the recommended crew levels. A PC or NPC with Pilot and Astronavigation skills I feel would me the minimum crew requirements. To meet the recommended number of stewards more than one of the crew could have as a secondary skill Steward and in theory meet or exceed the recommended number.

I will leave RAW and descend into logic for a moment, sorry. People can have many skill, but not the time to fill too many crew positions. I would agree that Pilot and Navigator can fairly easily be combined, he will be tied to the bridge. But engineers and stewards presumably need to spend quite some time running around polishing drives and passengers respectively, they cannot easily perform other duties as well.

One "traditional" combination is Steward and Medic, either way you are polishing passengers...

Another "traditional" combination is Steward and Gunner; In combat he fires the ship's guns, else (most of the time) he takes care of the passengers. The problem is finding the person with both these skills.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello AnotherDilbert,

As far as I can tell one PC or NPC can have at least two skills which appears to mean that the individual could fill in two positions and meet the recommended crew levels. A PC or NPC with Pilot and Astronavigation skills I feel would me the minimum crew requirements. To meet the recommended number of stewards more than one of the crew could have as a secondary skill Steward and in theory meet or exceed the recommended number.

I will leave RAW and descend into logic for a moment, sorry. People can have many skill, but not the time to fill too many crew positions. I would agree that Pilot and Navigator can fairly easily be combined, he will be tied to the bridge. But engineers and stewards presumably need to spend quite some time running around polishing drives and passengers respectively, they cannot easily perform other duties as well.

One "traditional" combination is Steward and Medic, either way you are polishing passengers...

Another "traditional" combination is Steward and Gunner; In combat he fires the ship's guns, else (most of the time) he takes care of the passengers. The problem is finding the person with both these skills.

I agree that the optimum combination would be medic/steward skills, I had not thought about gunner as a skill to combine with steward.

I also agree that a single Engineer PC/NPC is probably not the best skill to combine with steward, however to meet the recommended requirements I think it would work.

I guess I should have been more specific on what primary skills might be combined with the secondary skill of steward, however my thought was to suggest a method of meeting or exceeding the recommended steward requirements without dedicating a PC/NPC with a primary skill of steward.

Another consideration is that, I can not take credit for this one, is that for 168 +/-16.8 hours most of the crew have nothing to do but monitor systems and do maintenance/repairs that will not affect being in jump space.

In David Drake's RCN, Republic of Cinnabar Navy, series, the primary characters are Daniel Leary and Adele Mundy, the enlisted crew of the RCN double as the equivalent of stewards for officers and official passengers for extra pay. The enlisted crew would be looking after the officer or passenger when not on duty.

Thank you for providing a more focused take on crew PCs or NPCs that are most likely to double as stewards.

 

[Condottiere]

Your batman, Alfred, can be taught or pick up basic stewarding skills, hence level zero.

Same thing with a gunner or medic, rather than teaching a butler gunnery or medical skills.