1e CRB/MRB MD/JD/PP and 1e HG Spacecraft Options Drives p. 53

[snrdg121408]

Hello all,

How would I apply the Drives rules on p. 53 1e HG Spacecraft Options to the the maneuver drives in 1e CRB/MRB p. 107.

According to 1e HG p. 52

The Traveller core rulebook gives rules for building spacecraft as they are built in most shipyards across the Imperium – a mix of common off–the–shelf components, lowest–contractor–offer hulls, and electronics imported from high–tech or industrial worlds across the subsector. The overall tech level of the resulting spacecraft is roughly TL12, regardless of where it was built.

Here is how I think the rule would be applied using a TL-12 400-ton hull has a thrust of 3 using a Maneuver Drive which is 11 tons and costs MCr24.

At TL 13 the drive would be 11 x .95 = 10.45 tons and cost MCr24 x 1.1 = MCr26.4

Am I on the right track?

 

[AndrewW]

Am I on the right track?

Almost. The TL would be the TL of just the drive component itself (see the table at the top of page: 53, a manoeuvre 3 drive is TL 8 so a +1 TL drive would be TL9.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello AndrewW,

Thank you for your help which looks like I will not be using the 1e HG Drive option rules for maneuver drives and I really hope that 2e HG has something that I may be able to wrap my head around.

Am I on the right track?

Almost. The TL would be the TL of just the drive component itself (see the table at the top of page: 53, a manoeuvre 3 drive is TL 8 so a +1 TL drive would be TL9.

I am not sure what good the 1e HG Spacecraft Options Drive rule does for the maneuver drive since 1st HG p. 52 indicates that the 1e CRB/MRB Spacecraft Design rules are for hulls at roughly TL 12. I'm not even sure how they would apply to 1e HG Small Craft and Capital Ship Design rules.

Thank you again for replying.

 

[AndrewW]

I am not sure what good the 1e HG Spacecraft Options Drive rule does for the maneuver drive since 1st HG p. 52 indicates that the 1e CRB/MRB Spacecraft Design rules are for hulls at roughly TL 12. I'm not even sure how they would apply to 1e HG Small Craft and Capital Ship Design rules.

Can be used with a ship at any TL. Just take the individual parts at whatever TL is needed for that part then apply what you need, don't worry about whatever the ship's TL is.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The Traveller core rulebook gives rules for building spacecraft as they are built in most shipyards across the Imperium – a mix of common off–the–shelf components, lowest–contractor–offer hulls, and electronics imported from high–tech or industrial worlds across the subsector. The overall tech level of the resulting spacecraft is roughly TL12, regardless of where it was built.

This is fluff to explain why the design systems are different. "Roughly TL12" means nothing.

The only things that matter are the TL of your shipyard and the TL when the component became generally available.

In your case: A TL 13 shipyard (world) is building a 400 dT ship with Manoeuvre Drive 3. According to the table on p53 Man 3 is available starting with TL 8. Your shipyard is 13 - 8 = 5 TLs more advanced. You can choose any level of technological refinement up to TL+5 in the table on p53. (Yes, it only goes to TL+3.)


You might be able to combine that with the general rule on p52:

There is a 5% price discount per TL for older technology devices if bought new at the source, to a maximum of –30%.

So, a TL8 component, such as your M3 drive, can be refined to (TL+2: 90% tonnage, 125% cost). The smaller drive is a TL10 component. That is 3 TLs below your industrial capacity, so you can buy it for 15% less than listed price.
Tonnage: Man F = 11 dT. 11 * 90% = 9.9 dT
Cost: Man F = MCr 24. 24 * 125% * 85% = MCr 25.5


Everything after "You might" is a guess of mine, the rules are not completely precise.

 

[snrdg121408]

Morning PST AndrewW,

I am not sure what good the 1e HG Spacecraft Options Drive rule does for the maneuver drive since 1st HG p. 52 indicates that the 1e CRB/MRB Spacecraft Design rules are for hulls at roughly TL 12. I'm not even sure how they would apply to 1e HG Small Craft and Capital Ship Design rules.

Can be used with a ship at any TL. Just take the individual parts at whatever TL is needed for that part then apply what you need, don't worry about whatever the ship's TL is.

Thank you again for the reply.

In theory the 1e CRB/MRB Maneuver Drives are built at TL 12 which means they have reached their maximum potential. The only use for the Primitive & Advanced Spacecraft Maneuver Drive modifications in conjunction with 1e CRB/MRB Spacecraft Design Maneuver Drives is possibly figuring out their tons and cost at the TL of common availability or possibly their prototype tons and cost.

The 1e HG Small Craft Design rules use a similar table to the one in 1e CRB/MRB with a further refinement of gravitic or reaction maneuver drives, unfortunately I am not sure what TL they built at.

The 1e HG Capital Ship Design also does not, in my opinion, provide me with a TL which would allow me to apply the 1e HG Primitive & Advanced Spacecraft Maneuver Drive modifications.

Hopefully, 2e HG is written so that someone like me will be able to figure out how to apply a similar 1e Maneuver Drive Prototype or Advanced rule modifier.

 

[AndrewW]

The 1e HG Small Craft Design rules use a similar table to the one in 1e CRB/MRB with a further refinement of gravitic or reaction maneuver drives, unfortunately I am not sure what TL they built at.

The 1e HG Capital Ship Design also does not, in my opinion, provide me with a TL which would allow me to apply the 1e HG Primitive & Advanced Spacecraft Maneuver Drive modifications.

All the drives are built at the same TL based on that table. Doesn't matter if it's for a 10 ton fighter, 100 tone Scout, or a 200,000 ton battleship. The ship TL is generally the highest TL component, so the minimum TL the shipyard needs to be able to construct the ship, not indicative of the TL for all the individual components.

Hopefully, 2e HG is written so that someone like me will be able to figure out how to apply a similar 1e Maneuver Drive Prototype or Advanced rule modifier.

The construction system is now the same for any of those, so that shouldn't be confusing anyone. But if there is something that you aren't understanding once you are able to get it feel free to ask.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello AnotherDilbert,

The Traveller core rulebook gives rules for building spacecraft as they are built in most shipyards across the Imperium – a mix of common off–the–shelf components, lowest–contractor–offer hulls, and electronics imported from high–tech or industrial worlds across the subsector. The overall tech level of the resulting spacecraft is roughly TL12, regardless of where it was built.

This is fluff to explain why the design systems are different. "Roughly TL12" means nothing.

The only things that matter are the TL of your shipyard and the TL when the component became generally available.

In your case: A TL 13 shipyard (world) is building a 400 dT ship with Manoeuvre Drive 3. According to the table on p53 Man 3 is available starting with TL 8. Your shipyard is 13 - 8 = 5 TLs more advanced. You can choose any level of technological refinement up to TL+5 in the table on p53. (Yes, it only goes to TL+3.)

You might be able to combine that with the general rule on p52:

There is a 5% price discount per TL for older technology devices if bought new at the source, to a maximum of –30%.

So, a TL8 component, such as your M3 drive, can be refined to (TL+2: 90% tonnage, 125% cost). The smaller drive is a TL10 component. That is 3 TLs below your industrial capacity, so you can buy it for 15% less than listed price.
Tonnage: Man F = 11 dT. 11 * 90% = 9.9 dT
Cost: Man F = MCr 24. 24 * 125% * 85% = MCr 25.5

Everything after "You might" is a guess of mine, the rules are not completely precise.

Thank you for taking the time to explain an obsolete design system.

If the drives and power plants on 1e CRB/MRB Drive Costs are at the TL where they are considered standard then I agree that the shipyard's or world's TL makes the use of 1e HG Drives rules usable.

Unfortunately, I am not trying to be dense, but based on the information or lack of information I have no idea what TL the 1e CRB/MRB Drive Costs Table p. 107 are based on. The Technology Levels overview on p. 4 does provide information on when power plants and jump drives become available. Unfortunately, I may have missed the details in 1e CRB/MRB, but 1e HG does provide the TL information. However, there are still questions that 1e CRB/MRB and 1e HG do not, at least for me, clearly answer.

Are all the Power Plants on the 1e CRB/MRB Drive Costs Table TL-8?

What is the TL of the M-Drives on the 1e CRB/MRB Drive Costs Table?

Are all the J-Drives on the 1e CRB/MRB Drive Costs Table TL-9 J-1?

If you go with the 1e HG roughly TL 12 story are all of the 1e CRB/MRB J-Drives, M-Drives, and Power Plants optimized from the standard system?

Again thank you for the assistance.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello again AndreW,

The 1e HG Small Craft Design rules use a similar table to the one in 1e CRB/MRB with a further refinement of gravitic or reaction maneuver drives, unfortunately I am not sure what TL they built at.

The 1e HG Capital Ship Design also does not, in my opinion, provide me with a TL which would allow me to apply the 1e HG Primitive & Advanced Spacecraft Maneuver Drive modifications.

All the drives are built at the same TL based on that table. Doesn't matter if it's for a 10 ton fighter, 100 tone Scout, or a 200,000 ton battleship. The ship TL is generally the highest TL component, so the minimum TL the shipyard needs to be able to construct the ship, not indicative of the TL for all the individual components.

Hopefully, 2e HG is written so that someone like me will be able to figure out how to apply a similar 1e Maneuver Drive Prototype or Advanced rule modifier.

The construction system is now the same for any of those, so that shouldn't be confusing anyone. But if there is something that you aren't understanding once you are able to get it feel free to ask.

What are the TLs of the J-Drive, M-Drive, and Power Plant on the 1e CRB/MRB Drive Costs Table?

Are all of the listed Jump Drive information calculated for a TL 9 J-1 system?
Are the M-Drives TL 7 M-1 gravitic systems?
Are the power plants TL 8 fusion 1 systems?

The Small Craft Design rules in 1e HG is, in my opinion, the 1e Spacecraft Design Rules tweaked for hulls >=10 and <=100 tons and have the same, again in my opinion, the same questions.

Capital Ship Design rule in 1e HG I'm not to sure about since my work with the capital ship design example is looking at how any of the Spacecraft Options rules on 1e HG pp. 41- 53 change the design process.

Thank you for letting me know that 2nd HG spacecraft design rules will be less confusing for an old retired sailor, which gives me something to look forward to.

 

[AndrewW]

Are all the Power Plants on the 1e CRB/MRB Drive Costs Table TL-8?

All power planes in the Core Rulebook are built using TL11-14.

What is the TL of the M-Drives on the 1e CRB/MRB Drive Costs Table?

Manoeuvre Drives are TL 7-9 depending on the thrust.

Are all the J-Drives on the 1e CRB/MRB Drive Costs Table TL-9 J-1?

Jump Drives are built at whatever TL is needed to achieve that jump number.

If you go with the 1e HG roughly TL 12 story are all of the 1e CRB/MRB J-Drives, M-Drives, and Power Plants optimized from the standard system?

Ignore the TL12 that does not indicate at what TL any individual component is built at. Unless otherwise specified in the ship design specifications (such as making use of the options in Primitive/Advanced Spacecraft) all components are built at the TL where they become available at the given specifications (ie: power plants are TL11-14). It makes no difference if it's built from rules in the Core Rulebook or High Guard. None of the ships in the Core Rulebook are built using any of the Primitive/Advanced Spacecraft options.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello AndrewW,

Are all the Power Plants on the 1e CRB/MRB Drive Costs Table TL-8?

All power planes in the Core Rulebook are built using TL11-14.

What is the TL of the M-Drives on the 1e CRB/MRB Drive Costs Table?

Manoeuvre Drives are TL 7-9 depending on the thrust.

Are all the J-Drives on the 1e CRB/MRB Drive Costs Table TL-9 J-1?

Jump Drives are built at whatever TL is needed to achieve that jump number.

If you go with the 1e HG roughly TL 12 story are all of the 1e CRB/MRB J-Drives, M-Drives, and Power Plants optimized from the standard system?

Ignore the TL12 that does not indicate at what TL any individual component is built at. Unless otherwise specified in the ship design specifications (such as making use of the options in Primitive/Advanced Spacecraft) all components are built at the TL where they become available at the given specifications (ie: power plants are TL11-14). It makes no difference if it's built from rules in the Core Rulebook or High Guard. None of the ships in the Core Rulebook are built using any of the Primitive/Advanced Spacecraft options.

Thank you for the clarifications to my questions.

Traveller 1e HG Errata changed the range of the fusion power plant to be TL 8-11, TL 12-14, and TL 15+. Now I think I've got my mind wrapped around the 1e HG Spacecraft Options Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft Drives design rules.