1500pts Federation

[Zarathustra Suicune]

Here is a 1500pts fleet I have written, for use in general pick up games and tournaments.
U.S.S Titanic, DNF variant Federation Dreadnought
U.S.S Tenken, Bismark variant BattleCruiser
U.S.S Australia, Kirov Battlecruiser
U.S.S Lightning, Wolverine Fast Cruiser
U.S.S Castamere, Constitution Heavy Cruiser
U.S.S Ajax, Texas class light cruiser
U.S.S Walsingham, Ramius Battle Frigate
U.S.S Hadrian, Ramius Battle Frigate
1500pts
So how does this fleet look? Too big, not big enough? Drop the Castamere to take a couple of Burkes? any advice?

 

[billclo]

Looks a little top-heavy to me. You need more smaller (agile) ships to act as flankers and initiative sinks. You've also got a fleet filled with specialist ships.

Change the fleet to something like this:
DNF 310
NCC 220
NCA 190
CA 180
NCL 160
2 DW 240
2 FF 190
1490 pts

Another option might be:
DNF 310
BCH 240
NCA 190
2 NCL 320
2 DW 240
2 FF 190 pts
1490 pts

Or:
DNF 310
2 NCA 380
2 NCL 320
FFB 110
4 FF 380
1500 pts

What do you think?

 

[Zarathustra Suicune]

I don't have any of the war generation ships, just the contents of the fleet box, Ironically enough I was thinking of ordering/buying the federation reinforcements at the event
So it might be an idea to either drop either The CA or CF to take two Burkes, or even drop the Dreadnought and take an extra light cruiser with two burkes? Can a federation fleet hold itself at these pts level without a dreadnought?

 

[billclo]

I don't have any of the war generation ships, just the contents of the fleet box, Ironically enough I was thinking of ordering/buying the federation reinforcements at the event
So it might be an idea to either drop either The CA or CF to take two Burkes, or even drop the Dreadnought and take an extra light cruiser with two burkes? Can a federation fleet hold itself at these pts level without a dreadnought?

My experience with the Feds leads me to lean towards more small ships. I've frequently noted that it's hard to get Photon shots in with the clumsy Fed Heavy/NCA/BCH cruisers or DNGs. Especially when fighting Klingons; they tend to fly around your flanks and stay out of Photon arcs. In such a case, the only real advantage the DN has is more shields, and more hull. It has just a hard of a time as the cruisers in getting in it's Photon shots.

I have found that frequently with the Feds, just diving in into a close range fight (stay out of the Klingon's 4" killzone if possible) and considering the Photons as a secondary weapon to be used against targets of opportunity seems to work better. I used to hoard those Photons for that perfect shot against my target of choice, and more often than not, I didn't get to use them that way. So maneuver against your target of choice and try to win with Phasers, and shoot whatever strays into your Photon arc.

So having more hulls, especially agile FFs can be useful in that a) they are initiative sinks that the game system rewards you for having, and b) it's much easier for those FFs to get on the flanks of some Klingons in return. I like the DW hulls (better shield recharge rate, more hull damage points) better than the FFBs. But the DW and FFB aren't Agile, and it's really helpful to have some agile ships to punish those Klingon-flanking ships with. 2 FF with overloads and center-lined on a D7's flank/rear can put a hurting on his shields.

But if you've only got a fleet box to work with, hmm...

How about this:
BCH Kirov 240
BCF 240
2 CA 360
2 OCL 260
FFB 110
3 FF 285
1495 pts

A little less top heavy, with some agile ships to use as flankers. Maybe keep the 2 OCL and FFB together since they have the same turn abilities, and the OCLs have nice phasers. The FFB is kind of fragile, but if that's what you have to work with, use it.

 

[Zarathustra Suicune]

That is what I found in my game, the phasers did most of the work whilst the torpedoes were absorbed by shields :| .
Billclo: I really like that fleet you posted, though I am thinking of possibly taking a Prometheus or Wolverine instead of one of the Constitiutions, and I am a bit worried about facing enemy dreadnoughts.

 

[billclo]

I have yet to use the fast cruisers, but others have said that they are best run in pairs. A single fast ship will get chewed up apparently.

 

[Zarathustra Suicune]

Am thinking of not running it ahead, but keeping it with the rest of the fleet with it's extra phasers, possibly doing the odd leap forward to get an enemies rear.

 

[McKinstry]

I would agree that it is a bit top heavy. A Klingon fleet in particular can take a balanced force using nothing heavier than a C-7 and still be moving three or four ships after the Feds are done and generally an initiative sink disadvantage greater than two is very bad.

 

[scoutdad]

We very seldom go with a Federation Dreadnought... and een when we do; it's in a 2,500 point (or more) fleet.
It's typically a Kirov (or two). And after having a couple of bad experiences with solo fast cruisers... never again. Only in pairs (or triplets if its a big enough battle).

 

[Zarathustra Suicune]

The main thing that worries me with the burkes and the callahans is that they don't look like the will be able to do anything before getting blown up. In the one game I have had (500pts) my Wolverine did fairly well against the romulans, why is everyone saying they need to be in pairs?
Would this be any good:
2 BCF's 480pts
1 CA 180pts
Either another CA or a CF/CS 180/185pts
1 OCL 130pts
2 FFB's 220pts
3 FFG's 285pts
1480pts
Think it could do okay, I am just worried wherever or not the Burke's would be able to make a difference. I'm also really wishing I had picked up the Federations reinforcements squadron when Eclectic had it in stock now, it seems the War era ships for all their reduced hull points, would be useful.

 

[billclo]

I have to say that the Burkes do have a hard time vs the Klingon F5s. The Klingons tend to dance around the Burkes, and the half damage from the front rule really handicaps the Burkes vs F5s. I recall people mentioning that if the Burkes are jumped by some F5s away from the main fleet (out of support range), bye bye Burkes. The Klingon F5s have an easy time arranging for RX style attacks against the Burkes, and the Burkes can fire back, what a Phaser-1 and a Phaser-3? Vs half damage front shields? Disaster in the making.

But the situation isn't any better with DWs vs F5s. Same situation really. The DWs have better shields, but their phaser suite isn't much better, except for that extra front half Phaser-1. And the DWs aren't agile either. I just think the F5s are under-pointed for what they can do to you. 2-3 F5s doing their standard RX attacks is rough to deal with.

Only thing I can think of is to keep the Burkes near some supporting ships such that if the Klingons try their usual RX attacks from the flank bit, the support ships hit the Klingons in the flank shields. Certainly 3 Burkes vs 3 F5s with no support is a losing proposition for the Burkes.

If you can hold back a pair of Burkes off to one side such that they can hit a flanking Klingon cruiser in the flank/rear go for it. 2 x overloaded Photons hitting (4 fired, 2 hit), with 6 Phaser-1s in killzone means that cruiser's shields just went bye bye and then some. 2 Overloaded Photons for 16pts + 10 pts for average phaser shots = 26pts. Vs a 18-20 shield Klingon Cruiser. Even a C7's shields just went poof, gone. But then you've made him mad and you better leave.

Then a nearby larger Fed ship can finish that Klingon off if need be. I wouldn't depend on 2 Burkes to kill off a Klingon cruiser by themselves, but they can certainly set up a kill-shot for another ship or finish off a damaged Klingon with low shields.

 

[Da Boss]

Its important to be aware that a ship can not be firing and still be extremely valauble as a In sink - small ships should be keeping out of the way when the big ships are unleashing hell. They can sneak back in later and finish off the wounded ones

 

[billclo]

Would this be any good:
2 BCF's 480pts
1 CA 180pts
Either another CA or a CF/CS 180/185pts
1 OCL 130pts
2 FFB's 220pts
3 FFG's 285pts
1480pts

Why not lose one FFB and get a OCL? They have the same turn mode. OCL has a much better phaser suite, which is what you will be using most of the time. OCL has a much tougher hull, though it loses a Photon. I'd rather have the 2 extra phaser-1s most of the time.

 

[McKinstry]

I'm a little curious as to the BCF love. I prefer the BCH or BCJ as a two dice plasma F is a poor trade for photons or drones at all but the closest of ranges.

Besides, plasma is for the uncouth (Gorn) or the sneaky (Roms).

I'd also trade an FFB for a OCL or if I had the option, use DW's instead if I had them. For me, FFB's have all the fragility of the FF's with no agility and not enough extra firepower to justify using them unless nothing else was available and fit the points.

 

[Nerroth]

Besides, plasma is for the uncouth (Gorn) or the sneaky (Roms).

Or for those who use torpedoes to backstop a certain direct-fire application of plasma technology (the ISC)... well, at least when the Andromedans aren't around to spoil the party.


But then, I suppose it'll be quite a while yet before the ISC or Andros show up in ACtA:SF, so.

 

[Zarathustra Suicune]

Didn't notice that, will drop FFB for a OCL, the main reason for the plasma love is that for some reason I like the idea of it, and wanted to try it.

 

[Ben2]

BCFs are a good ship to try.

I would also recommend the later fleets posted. A Federation Dreadnought in a 1500 point fleet is a big chunk that'll lead to you getting init sinked by anyone not packing a dreadnought. At 2000 points I wouldn't hesitate to put a DN in, but 1500 is marginal.

On fast cruisers, single cruisers get chewed up because they get seperated from the fleet, even if it is just by a few inches, and so cop the enemy fleets short range weapons. They can't output enough damage on their own to do serious damage to a mint condition ship (though they can finish off a cripple). Two together gives them serious punch.

 

[JohnDW]

I think his whole plan was that he would keep the fast cruiser with the rest of the fleet, nothing says you have to go the full distance allowed when moving. I say keep the single fast cruiser if thats what you want to do.

 

[Ben2]

If he keeps it with the fleet he is sacrificing the benefit you get from fast ships, the fact they can surge across the board.

 

[JohnDW]

The wolverine has more forward facing phaser-1 than the constitution class, so it has the benefit of being able to duke it out with phasers better, which is what he was looking for, if i understand his posts so far.

Edit: the constitution can perfectly line up at every 90 degrees around it to get 6 phaser-1 shots at a target, but the wolverine can line up a target in the front 90 degrees to get 8 phaser-1 shots at a target, so there is less flexibility in bringing phasers to bear all around the ship, but it can concentrate more firepower in the front, and doesn't have to work as hard to get its full firepower in the front.