10,000 BC
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Utgardloki
Mongoose
I went to watch 10,000 BC last night, especially since, as indicated by the last thread I started, I've begun to be interested in Atlantean mythology and prior ages of the Earth. Although, I think the movie takes a few more liberties with the realities of earth geography and archeology that I was looking for.
Even though I thought the movie itself was kind of "meh" (or perhaps, very midrange), I would definitely like to see a sequel, in which we get to see more of this Atlantean culture. I could certainly see a good Runequest adventure based on this idea.
Even though I thought the movie itself was kind of "meh" (or perhaps, very midrange), I would definitely like to see a sequel, in which we get to see more of this Atlantean culture. I could certainly see a good Runequest adventure based on this idea.
Utgardloki
Mongoose
Okay, so I started thinking of how this could be turned into a Runequest game, and one thing that is driving me batty is the crazy geography in the movie.
I'll try not to give away any spoilers, but if you want to be sure not to have any surprises given away, you might want to go see the movie first and then come back to this thread. But I'll try to be careful.
Based on the movie, I'd say that the heroes started out in what is now Romania, and ended up (not counting the scene where the hero returns triumphantly home) in northern Egypt. However, apparently the hero also goes through Nubia and the Paleocene Epoch. What the ...? It's exciting, but the route of the trek makes no logistical sense.
The only explanation that I can think of is one from notes I am making involving Lemuria, and the fact that in these notes it is not really a lost continent but is actually an extraplanar place that can be used as an archaic version of hyperspace -- find a route into Lemuria, trek through Lemuria, and then find a route back out and complete your journey in less time than it would take to make the same journey across the Earth. In White Wolf's Exalted, travel through the Celestial Realm of Yu Shan can work the same way, cutting the distance you actually need to travel by a factor of ten.
I don't know if it is possible to discuss other alternatives without revealing more about the movie.
I've thought that maybe the action actually takes place along the Atlantic coast of Europe and Africa, but that does not seem to work out because it seems that the Nile River is very clearly referenced. On the other hand, in 10,000 BC, the climate of Egypt was a lot more hospitable, so the idea of the river flowing through the desert is a bit of an anachronism.
The credits say that the movie was filmed in South Africa and New Zealand.
I'll try not to give away any spoilers, but if you want to be sure not to have any surprises given away, you might want to go see the movie first and then come back to this thread. But I'll try to be careful.
Based on the movie, I'd say that the heroes started out in what is now Romania, and ended up (not counting the scene where the hero returns triumphantly home) in northern Egypt. However, apparently the hero also goes through Nubia and the Paleocene Epoch. What the ...? It's exciting, but the route of the trek makes no logistical sense.
The only explanation that I can think of is one from notes I am making involving Lemuria, and the fact that in these notes it is not really a lost continent but is actually an extraplanar place that can be used as an archaic version of hyperspace -- find a route into Lemuria, trek through Lemuria, and then find a route back out and complete your journey in less time than it would take to make the same journey across the Earth. In White Wolf's Exalted, travel through the Celestial Realm of Yu Shan can work the same way, cutting the distance you actually need to travel by a factor of ten.
I don't know if it is possible to discuss other alternatives without revealing more about the movie.
I've thought that maybe the action actually takes place along the Atlantic coast of Europe and Africa, but that does not seem to work out because it seems that the Nile River is very clearly referenced. On the other hand, in 10,000 BC, the climate of Egypt was a lot more hospitable, so the idea of the river flowing through the desert is a bit of an anachronism.
The credits say that the movie was filmed in South Africa and New Zealand.
RosenMcStern
Mongoose
I have not seen the movie yet, but there is a funny coincidence in what you say. I devised an Atlantean setting for RQ3 fifteen years ago, and it had some of the characteristics you are discussing here.
Basically, the Atlanteans were some sort of Ancient Age Melniboneans, a superior but declining race that ruled over a younger breed of humans. They used men and Minotaurs as slaves. And they had an extraplanar origin. Their ships could shift planes and invade other world, which provided a very good excuse for trips to world populated by orcs or elves without placing them anywhere in "real" Earth.
Basically, the Atlanteans were some sort of Ancient Age Melniboneans, a superior but declining race that ruled over a younger breed of humans. They used men and Minotaurs as slaves. And they had an extraplanar origin. Their ships could shift planes and invade other world, which provided a very good excuse for trips to world populated by orcs or elves without placing them anywhere in "real" Earth.
I've seen the film and it's pretty good.
As for the geography, it goes from steppe to mountain to savannah to river to desert. Looking at a map, they could start off on the Eurasian steppe and go across the Caucasus Mountains, through Iran and the Near East, hitting the Nile then crossing the desert. During the Ice Age there was a lot more desert than now, because of all the water trapped in the ice, and a lot more savannah. I wouldn't get too hung up on Nubia - the tribes encountered were just supposed to be different, I think, not particular reflections of tribes at that time. I'm not sure about Mammoths in Africa, though, elephants would have made more sense, but hey-ho it's just a film.
Having Atlanteans using Minotaurs as slaves makes a lot of sense when you consider the Bull Cult that seems to have spread throughout Stine Age Europe and the Middle East. I always thought Atlanteans worshipped a number of Bull Gods (Earthshaker, Fire-Breather and Wave-Maker being three of them) and Minotaurs would fit in nicely.
As for the geography, it goes from steppe to mountain to savannah to river to desert. Looking at a map, they could start off on the Eurasian steppe and go across the Caucasus Mountains, through Iran and the Near East, hitting the Nile then crossing the desert. During the Ice Age there was a lot more desert than now, because of all the water trapped in the ice, and a lot more savannah. I wouldn't get too hung up on Nubia - the tribes encountered were just supposed to be different, I think, not particular reflections of tribes at that time. I'm not sure about Mammoths in Africa, though, elephants would have made more sense, but hey-ho it's just a film.
Having Atlanteans using Minotaurs as slaves makes a lot of sense when you consider the Bull Cult that seems to have spread throughout Stine Age Europe and the Middle East. I always thought Atlanteans worshipped a number of Bull Gods (Earthshaker, Fire-Breather and Wave-Maker being three of them) and Minotaurs would fit in nicely.
Utgardloki
Mongoose
Hervé said:10.000 has more in common with the Hyborian world of Conan than with any other setting. Unfortunately, the Conan RPG uses the D20 OGL...
10,000 BC may have some of the same set design as the Hyborian Age, and may have some of the same philosophy of "Let's make a sort of prequel to recorded history." But what makes 10,000 BC different from Conan is that Conan would have left a lot more dead bodies, dead mammoths, dead giant man-eating ostriches, and dead anything else that got in his way. Plus, after killing the "immortal", Conan would have had to battle some sort of gargantuan beast.
To my mind, this means that D20 is well suited for a Conan RPG, because that game system supports superheroic fantasy characters who can take on a platoon of giant man-eating ostriches. 10,000 BC is more of a Runequest game, where no matter how great you are at being a hero, you are still mortal, and can be felled by a single spear. My advice, max out Dodge so that the 8 foot tall man-eating ostriches don't get you.
If you have any Conan RPG material, you may be able to use it easily in a 10,000 BC Runequest game. Just use the buildings, cities and villages and make new stats for everything. You might also want to throw out some of the tough monsters or replace them with more normal creatures.
shotgun-toting chipmunk
Mongoose
Utgardloki said:
That's darn near sig-worthy! :lol:
Astromancer
Mongoose
Atlantis fits with an Eternal Champion/Million Spheres background really well. Just say that Atlantis is on a nearby plane. Before the Holocene ice melt they could just sail over to Europe on our plane.
However, when the seas rise, they can't keep coming over because they appear below the surface of the water when they come over here, and fall to their sea-level when they return. For a while there are areas where the tides allow ships to cross between worlds. The primitive people of our world interpet this as Atlantis sinking.
There are some places on land where people can cross between the plains, but as few crossing are made it gets harder to cross. This leads to still fewer crossings. And Atlantis is lost.
Reactions?
However, when the seas rise, they can't keep coming over because they appear below the surface of the water when they come over here, and fall to their sea-level when they return. For a while there are areas where the tides allow ships to cross between worlds. The primitive people of our world interpet this as Atlantis sinking.
There are some places on land where people can cross between the plains, but as few crossing are made it gets harder to cross. This leads to still fewer crossings. And Atlantis is lost.
Reactions?
Utgardloki
Mongoose
I guess Atlantis is whatever you want it to be. There are thousands of possible interpretations. In my Ages of the Earth thread, I was looking at Atlantis as part of the Ages of the Earth, with a Muvian Epoch (48 ages), Atlantean Epoch (24 ages), and Eurasian Epoch (12 ages).
I employed the idea of planar shifts to explain Lemuria and Hyperborea. For Hyperborea, it was easiest to get there when its primary star was Earth's "North Star". But as Earth's North Star shifted, it became more difficult to get there.
But for Atlantis, I decided to go with general global warming to sink their continent, in addition to other geological changes such as tilting continents and temperature shifts in the rocky mantle. By 10,000 BC, the core of Atlantis would have been sunk. I do have some notes which suggest some Atlanteans might have made it as far as the Black Sea, based on a reading of Genesis 4:19-24. Descendants of a half-Atlantean named Na'amah (one of the women named in this passage) may have built a pre-Egyptian empire, which dies sometime after 10,000 BC.
Unfortunately, this screws of the geography of the movie even more, but putting Lemuria "off-plane" still allows our heroes to take a quick job through there to fight against the man-eating ostriches.
I've listed 29 Ages of Atlantis (the last 5 ages overlap with the first 5 of the Eurasian Epoch), which implies that many different eras would exist, which could have radically different appearances.
I employed the idea of planar shifts to explain Lemuria and Hyperborea. For Hyperborea, it was easiest to get there when its primary star was Earth's "North Star". But as Earth's North Star shifted, it became more difficult to get there.
But for Atlantis, I decided to go with general global warming to sink their continent, in addition to other geological changes such as tilting continents and temperature shifts in the rocky mantle. By 10,000 BC, the core of Atlantis would have been sunk. I do have some notes which suggest some Atlanteans might have made it as far as the Black Sea, based on a reading of Genesis 4:19-24. Descendants of a half-Atlantean named Na'amah (one of the women named in this passage) may have built a pre-Egyptian empire, which dies sometime after 10,000 BC.
Unfortunately, this screws of the geography of the movie even more, but putting Lemuria "off-plane" still allows our heroes to take a quick job through there to fight against the man-eating ostriches.
I've listed 29 Ages of Atlantis (the last 5 ages overlap with the first 5 of the Eurasian Epoch), which implies that many different eras would exist, which could have radically different appearances.
Utgardloki
Mongoose
Just in case anybody needed this explained, the Slate Magazine Explainer has an article explaining how realistic the movie was.
http://www.slate.com/id/2186730/
I guess the movie is more realistic than the Xena: Warrior Princess TV series, but it still seems like asking how healthy is a steady diet of candy bars, potato chips and cola. :?
(Clarification 11:21 3/17: I don't mean to imply that the movie was unhealthy in any way, as long as you don't eat too much candy and buttered popcorn while watching it. I was just looking for a question that would be really, really obvious, like whether Senator John McCain is old, or whether supersonic jet engines are loud.)
http://www.slate.com/id/2186730/
I guess the movie is more realistic than the Xena: Warrior Princess TV series, but it still seems like asking how healthy is a steady diet of candy bars, potato chips and cola. :?
(Clarification 11:21 3/17: I don't mean to imply that the movie was unhealthy in any way, as long as you don't eat too much candy and buttered popcorn while watching it. I was just looking for a question that would be really, really obvious, like whether Senator John McCain is old, or whether supersonic jet engines are loud.)
