Who's fault was it? (mild 'In the Beginning' spoiler)

[Locutus9956]

Ok this is just cos I'm bored and I got to thinking about the whole Earth Minbari War thing. Who was most directly to blame for it starting?

If you've not seen 'In the Beginning' this wont make alot of sense (and if you havent seen it and call yourself a B5 fan you really REALLY need to go out and buy it on DVD ).

Personally I think the person most directly responsible for starting the war was the captain of the Valentha (the Grey Sharlin) who took the first actions that could really be interpreted as 'hostile'.

1) He approached with gun ports open. Gesture of strength and respect my arse, this has to be the single stupidest non hostile greeting in the known universe. It's like surrendering by walking towards your enemy with a loaded gun cocked and pointed at his head 'so he can see it'.

2) They uses a full on deep scan of an obviously crappy technologically primitive ship. Minbari should know full well how much EM their scanners put out and the likely effect on their 'target'.

 

[H]

I Blame Jeff Sinclair. he could have saved millions of lives, and made sure everyone was fully prepared for the shadows waking, but geez, you know, he grew a bone and kept his gob shut!
but then if it hadn't all happened, he would never have gone back in time, thus not becoming Valen, therefore not being able to tell them, so it would have all happened completely differently again.. Ahh the vagries of time travel!

 

[Da Boss]

For me - the Grey Council,

Both Captains made mistakes, it was the Leaders of the Minbari who decided on genocide..............

but hey!

 

[captainsmirk]

Yeah that always did seem to be a bit of an overreaction on their part, especially for normally mild-mannered Delenn (bet she never mentioned that it was her vote that decided it to her husband...).

Sure they just fired on one of your ships and killed your leader, plenty of justification for starting a war there, but the planned genocide of an entire species? :shock:


Nick

 

[Burger]

Clearly the gunner of the Promethius, he is quite obviously a raving lunatic. He even thinks he is King Arthur. Whoever let him onto a starship should have their head read.

OK, actually I think the real person whose fault it is, is the gunner's training officer, he should've recommended him for immediate psychiatric evaluation rather than passing him on "basic Hyperion gunnery skill".

 

[prelude_to_war]

I blame Earthdome for sending a loose cannon like Jankowski on a first contact mission. Remember the Omega Incident? According to the novelization, the Omega Incident was an unjustified attack on a Dilgar ship by Captain Jankowski. The attack led to Earth's involvement in the Dilgar War.

I know, I know - the military tribunal cleared Jankowski of the Omega Incident (probably b/c they won the war with flying colors), but clearly Earthdome didn't treat this first contact situation with the proper forethought. And they got smacked for it!

 

[tneva82]

Captain of Prometheys. He panicked. Albeit he had reasons(like minbari ECM preventing to see wether guns are powered or not and disabling jump engines(so much for bonehead manouver)) but sheesh. First contact situation! And who told to start scanning them and approaching them when their orders were not to do anything like that?

 

[cthol24601]

I would think the captain was being a bit of an idiot given that he was on a diplomatic mission to another race's territory. I would have thought the whole point would be not to fire unless fired upon given they know the Minbari had no knowledge of their intentions and were within their rights to be cautious ie have funs ready. I also think its just that the Earthers were cocky after the Dilgar war and thought they were the big kid on the block rather than the big fish in a small pond they were.

 

[B_Steele]

Jankowski all the way. Any captain whose idea of avoidance is getting up next to them and then freaking out when you can't properly scan the enemy...unloading all weapons at them in the process...deserves everything he later got at Jericho Outpost.

-Bry

 

[Delthos]

You forgot an option, no one group or individual was most directly to blame.

My problem is how did the crew of the Promethius know the weapon ports of a previously unknown class of ship were open? How did they even know what was a weapon on the Minbari ship? Not only that but what weapon ports? All the Sharlins that I've seen have no ports and most of the Minbari fleet as far as I've seen. Their weapons are mounted outside the hull.

 

[Burger]

Actually I reckon it was Gaius Baltar. I know he admits to being flawed, but mistakes were made, it was his fault, he is solely to blame.

Space him.

 

[H]

You forgot an option, no one group or individual was most directly to blame.

My problem is how did the crew of the Promethius know the weapon ports of a previously unknown class of ship were open? How did they even know what was a weapon on the Minbari ship? Not only that but what weapon ports? All the Sharlins that I've seen have no ports and most of the Minbari fleet as far as I've seen. Their weapons are mounted outside the hull.

why the Rubber dust caps on the guns obviously, everyone knows that space dust really messes up the refraction of the laser beam, so you have to keep your mirrors shiny ;-)

 

[tneva82]

My problem is how did the crew of the Promethius know the weapon ports of a previously unknown class of ship were open? How did they even know what was a weapon on the Minbari ship? Not only that but what weapon ports? All the Sharlins that I've seen have no ports and most of the Minbari fleet as far as I've seen. Their weapons are mounted outside the hull.

Since I don't remember the details did the "gunports are open" phrase come before or after Minbari put their scanners to full?

If before perhaps scanners were working justabout enough to detect them.

As for what was a weapon on Minbari ship. Weapons are based on loosely same ideas so would make sense they have similar forms regardless of race.

 

[Locutus9956]

I believe gunports open came before scanners to full but Im pretty sure the prometheus didnt detect the gunports before they were scanned.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

One of the wonderful things about B5 is the shades of grey aspect to the show - that almost everyone has good and evil about them, and while they mean well, they often make mistakes (also why I love the new Galactica). With the encounter between the Prometheus battle group and the grey council it was that Jankowski was the wrong man to be in the command chair, but also that the wrong man was manning the guns (he fired before Jankowski gave the order, IIRC).

Of course, the minbari warriors commanding valen'tha were arrogant in assuming the Humans would recognise their symbol of respect, and it's a bloody stupid symbol of respect to use in a first contact situation in the first place. And Delenn shoulders much of the blame for the war in choosing revenge while distraught and grief-stricken.

 

[Jal]

(he fired before Jankowski gave the order, IIRC).

incorrect.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

I'll have to rewatch the episode again, but doesn't he say somethign to that regard in "A late delivery from Avalon"? It's been ages since I rewatched season 3.

 

[Burger]

In "In The Beginning" you actually see it happening. I'd believe that over the word of a derranged lunatic who thinks he's Arthur!

 

[Hash]

Actually I reckon it was Gaius Baltar. I know he admits to being flawed, but mistakes were made, it was his fault, he is solely to blame.

Space him.

What? What?! Preposterous - look, I had a gun to my head...what would you have done? What would anyone have done in similar circumstances? What was I expected to do, simply allow our species to be eliminated?!

 

[Hash]

More seriously...like any tragic incident that you could mirror in a historical context there is usually enough "blame" to spread around. It is a series of circumstances and underlying causes sparked by a single catatrosphic decision that acts to give those underlying causes severe consequences.

In this context, any one of the characters could probably have acted differently and so avoid the resulting EM war...however, the circumstances being such each character acted according to their nature, is one solely to blame? One could argue that it was inevitable...