Whitestar Battleship

[Ripple]

If the whitestar was anything like we see in some scenes it would be SM and move last, just after fighters... (still be boresighted though...=p), but...

We do see whitestars killed by regular line EA ships in the battle to free the first colony, and they are getting chewed by the shadow omegas before the components went ahead and played merry hell with the electronics.

To the comments that B5Wars and ACtA are not the same game, your right... and the moment ACtA stops using any of the ships made for the previous game I'll be right behind you. But the reality is ACtA is a descendant of B5Wars married to Battlefleet Gothic largely... and should do its parents some credit...

More than any other source, B5Wars got the nod from the creator, and that should be respected.

Finally... it is a game, but like was said above, it's also a simulation of a show and a universe that exist outside of mongooses control. We would all raise merry hell if Mongoose all of a sudden decided that the Omega had no beams, and for the very good reason that it would be blantantly against the fluff. Why some of us accept similar if slightly less glaring deficiencies with other ships confuses me. There have certainly been plenty of other suggestions for how to approach the issue (whtiestars, boresights and initiative sink issues included.)

On the whitestar expansion issue... I was fairly sure they had said they couldn't build more too... but I can't find it so maybe not. But that said the vicky is clearly intended to fill the role laid out, so a bit surprised someone wants to horn in on its territory.

That said a slightly more war oriented version of the whitestar carrier would not be unreasonable. Variant on the same theme, either they exist or they don't, if they do, why not a few different models.

ripple

 

[katadder]

what components? the WSs beat the shadow omegas on their own. the shadow tech teeps were put on normal omegas at mars.

 

[Ripple]

I'll have to watch that again... must be getting the two fights confused. I just remember the whitestars running along the edge of the shadow omegas and a number of them getting blasted on the first run before they swing around.

Ripple

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I don't like the White Star variants at all. I don't think there's much evidence for the two classes MGP split the ship into, and the Gunship and Carrier annoy me. The Victory-class destroyer is intended to fill the role of the larger warship to take on other races' capital units, and if the ISA techs had the ability to build bigger, badder White Stars I'm sure Sheridan would have wanted that.

The Vorlons had to help the Minbari design the White Star; the Victory is Minbari/EA tech with a few Vorlon and Shadow bits they've been able to figure out how to replicate/use. It doesn't have the White Star's bio-armour, it gets the AA trait for the energy refractive armour the Minbari came up with, presumably based on their own crystaline armour tech.

So, for the record, that's a "no" vote for the White Star battleship concept... :wink:

 

[Karhedron]

I don't like the White Star variants at all. I don't think there's much evidence for the two classes MGP split the ship into, and the Gunship and Carrier annoy me. The Victory-class destroyer is intended to fill the role of the larger warship to take on other races' capital units, and if the ISA techs had the ability to build bigger, badder White Stars I'm sure Sheridan would have wanted that.

Whilst from a pure canon poiont of view I tend to agree with you, it would make the ISA fleet pretty bland. If you could only field WS, BS and Victories then it would get very dull and samey, no matter how good the ships themslves were.

Personally I am happy to accept MGP's take on this. The game is set in an expanded B5 universe showing us ships that may have existed offscreen.

Actually, just to contradict myself slightly, the Bluestar is a canon ship. It shows that the ISA have cracked the secret of scaling WS technology and applying it differently. They have clearly moved beyond simply replicating it. If they can build a smaller version of the white star then I don't have a gut problem with the concept of them building a bigger version.

LOTR shows that the Victory is not the only big ship that the ISA is working on. The Valen was another larger ship even if it barely left the test lab.

Speaking of which, any chance of a Valen-class for the ISA Mongoose?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I don't object to new ships, just new White Stars. I'm very happy for MGP to add new ships to the ISA fleet, but I think it's wrong to say they'd be bland without the White Star gunship and carrier. They've got the Nolo'Tar and Valen from LotR, the other Valen from TLT available to make as models, plus the endless allies options.

Some totally new ISA units would be nice, actually, things that aren't cop-outs made by mucking about with White Stars...

 

[GhostRecon]

The ISA still had the capacity to manufacture Whitestars; Sheridan's quote where he asks for the construction of the Victory-class Destroyer goes along the lines of "We've been using Whitestars for everything to fighting battleships to patrols, and its starting to strain the fleet."

Essentially, Sheridan realized they couldn't just rely on the Whitestars, and wanted a heavy cruiser to back them up, and to counter the "big guns" of enemy fleets... thus the Victory-class Destroyer.

And they planned on giving the Victory-class Destroyers vorlon hull protection systems, but the Drakh invasion prevented that.

 

[David Anla Shok']

Why a Whitestar battleship when there is the Victory class?

 

[Burger]

Why a Whitestar battleship when there is the Victory class?

QFT.

 

[Commador Q]

Lord David the Denied wrote:

I don't like the White Star variants at all. I don't think there's much evidence for the two classes MGP split the ship into, and the Gunship and Carrier annoy me. The Victory-class destroyer is intended to fill the role of the larger warship to take on other races' capital units, and if the ISA techs had the ability to build bigger, badder White Stars I'm sure Sheridan would have wanted that.

I'd say theres plenty of evedince. they state outright that some white stars have fighters in the episode where Lenier is training with the rangers. but in all of the battle scenes and fleet staging scenes with the White stars there are no nails to be seen. in my mind this prety clearly shows that the class of white star equipped with fighters is fairly uncommon in the fleet, but must exist. it would actually have been easier for Mongoose to simply take the nails away from the white star class (saying that the compliment on a white star is too few to be a full flight), but then people would have complained about that as well.

but back on topic:
I'm of the opinion that the ISA list is already too big.

I liked when building an ISA fleet was more a matter of "how many white stars do i get?" than the curent incarnation. I think it better represented the problems that faced the ISA, namely that even though the had arguably the best ship class in the galaxy, because that was all they had they had trouble in major engagments because the fleet was so much of a one trick poney (once you figure out how to fight white stars there isn't much the the can do about it besides send more white stars). if they wanted a fleet carrier or a scout, or a troop ship etc, they needed to use allied vessels, and due to the legistical issues of allied fleets that means the fleet has to be fairly focused on it's objective and the white stars have to bate the additional burdon of ensureing the realatively few mission critical ships don't get picked off too early.

personally i advocate doing for the ISA what has already been done for the league fleets. that is split them into several mamber fleets which can be use seperately or ombined (taking an initiative penalty when combined). then the ISA ships that are minbari designe go to the Minbari fleet, the Victory class goes to EA, and a new White star fleet takes on the White star, blue star, gunship, figter and carrier.

 

[David Anla Shok']

Why a Whitestar battleship when there is the Victory class?

QFT.

QFT?

 

[Grimbart_Kriegsaxt]

QFT = Quotet for truth.

 

[David Anla Shok']

QFT = Quotet for truth.

Always learning something new...... Thanks.

 

[lastbesthope]

I liked when building an ISA fleet was more a matter of "how many white stars do i get?"

I still play that way, that's the breaks for a counter fleet, caused me alls orts of trouble for a 5 point Battle, 8 ship limit at the tourney next weekend.

LBH

 

[Greg Smith]

orts of trouble

I guess your fleet is clouded in mystery.

 

[David Anla Shok']

I liked when building an ISA fleet was more a matter of "how many white stars do i get?"

I still play that way, that's the breaks for a counter fleet, caused me alls orts of trouble for a 5 point Battle, 8 ship limit at the tourney next weekend.

LBH

"orts"? Llorts? or sorts? 0;>

 

[lastbesthope]

orts of trouble

I guess your fleet is clouded in mystery.

Nah, it's sitting in an envelope on a shelf by my 2E rulebooks, a small envelope :lol:

LBH

 

[Locutus9956]

Why a Whitestar battleship when there is the Victory class?

QFT.

QFT?

Learned about that one myself a while back, I had previously thought it meant 'Quite F**king True'

 

[David Anla Shok']

orts of trouble

I guess your fleet is clouded in mystery.

Nah, it's sitting in an envelope on a shelf by my 2E rulebooks, a small envelope :lol:

LBH

Sitting in an envelope... must be nice sometimes. My "fleets" stack up to about 5 plus feet high and it gets to be a chore to move around at times.

 

[lastbesthope]

Well only my tourney fleet fits in an envelope, I have 5 complete counter packs so I need a boxfile for all of them.

My unassembeld minis fleet, stacked in Mongoose sales boxes currently takes up about 3 cubic feet on a shelf, double stacked behind my 1E B5 RPG and ACTA stuff.

LBH